I wonder about this. I read (a lot of) internet advice about mating and dating. It seems the internet is the resource for all pronouncements about the way to get laid. (Reputable, traditional publishers are less likely to take on such topics, perhaps.) Many of the studies are unverifiable, or at best anecdotal. Few have a large statistical base. Most are done in one city, thus entirely failing to consider cultural factors. Often the "scientists" performing the studies don't even believe that culture COULD BE a factor. "But that's beside the point," they'll respond.
Nevertheless, I know that my own face is not particularly expressive ("negative neutral" is one term for it) just because of the shape of certain fat deposits relative to certain muscles. And I do quite poorly with women, more poorly than most of my friends and acquaintances tend to assume until after they've gotten to know me and heard the horror stories. Many folks who only know me from a cursory standpoint assume I'm socially happy, and am quite successful in dating, and that the reason I'm continually single is merely that I'm excessively picky. This mistake of theirs implies to me, that they have assumed I have choice and making poor choices. But the fact is, I have no choice. Maybe it's related to my immobile face?
I think I was in my 20's last time anyone flirted with me. There's an effervescent girl at the grocery store, and she comes closest to flirting. Of course, vanishing home to a wife and kids after working in a male dominated office cuts down the scope for flirting.
I have thought about brazenly flirting with someone, just for flirting. It's a social pastime in working class Britain, but I don't see it here in the US. Apart from truck stop waitresses on movies.
Maybe I do flirt and not notice. Maybe I have been flirted with, and didn't see it.
But this does not answer the question. Assholes present danger. That is what "chicks" want. I had many college friends tell me I was a nice chap and a good friend. I even had one say that when she had kids she'd let me date her daughter. Several of my friends mothers said (even within earshot of me) "why aren't you dating Alex he's much better then XYZ".
So nice doesn't work, even if you flirt, or ask outright.
I know how I got 3 out of my 4 girlfriends. It was just be being a nice guy who was there. The other was a drunken flirtation (on both sides) that went tremendously wrong romantically, but a good 5 year friendship came out of it, go figure...
I've heard all the arguments about women falling for "alpha males" as well as for "good providers," and how the @$$hole contingent can gain some kind of advantage from that. I take it, but with a grain of salt.
For me, the women I'm actively interested in dating / mating with, tend to be of a higher level of education and socio-economic background than those who can be fooled by their instincts into just going with whatever "gets them excited" right off the cuff. So the quest for palatable @$$holeness has to be mitigated somewhat by the knowledge that my chosen group of targets only responds in a qualified way to direct @$$holeness and therefore my presentation needs to be modified accordingly.
All that theory to say, I like nice girls. :) (Oh, and ain't it fun to type "@$$hole" over and over?)
But nice girls don't tend to like me -- at least, not enough to DATE me. Sure, they respect me and talk to me, but actually DO THE NASTY with me? Not likely. And that might have something to do with my immobile face. The picture of me you see over there >> in a hat is a very strained gesture for my face. Inside, it feels like I'm going, "This is the idiotically goofy expression I have to make in order to please the person who is taking a photograph." That's how I tend to feel about any smile that someone can see at all. If I just let myself feel, "I am smiling," then most people won't be able to see the effect on the outside. Sure, it's fine for my own sense of self, and for my own emotional wellbeing; but it doesn't communicate to outside observers anything that might then lead to flirting.
my brother dates and sleeps with barflies constantly who are either hooked on crack or alcohol or both. sure he's got the girls but who wants common sluts like that? i've met a nice widowed lady who drives a two-seated retro thunderbird and her kids are grown, she's a little older than me but at least she's worth taking home and building a relationship with. barflies are common, good women are not. bank on it, i'll pay interest.
"the women I'm actively interested in dating / mating with, tend to be of a higher level of education and socio-economic background than those who can be fooled by their instincts into just going with whatever "gets them excited" right off the cuff."
Doesn't matter how educated they are, they still are ruled by the same caveman shit that everyone else is, and they will go for the alpha male type. It's the same reason women - though they won't admit it - like to be treated like shit because it's something deep inside beyond their control. At least, until they get older, then they realize those guys won't give them what they want. Nothing against women - guys are just as much slaves to their primitive side. No amount of intellect or education can overcome some instincts.
It's the same reason women - though they won't admit it - like to be treated like shit because it's something deep inside beyond their control.
I disagree. Some women do enjoy being treated like common dirt, but if they have "any" self-esteem or respect for themselves they won't "tolerate" that kind of BS. (Nor will I be treated like a common dog. End of story for me.)
Interesting that, when I suggested I wanted I wanted regular sexual intercourse with a woman who is physically appealing to me, someone indicated that he assumed I meant I wanted a loser of a woman who has nothing to offer but physical appeal and who otherwise doesn't have her life together. Same someone seems to have assumed, that a woman who has regular sexual intercourse is inherently less desirable than a woman who does not.
I find these sexist assumptions disturbing. And rather illogical, though common. I didn't say "only" and I certainly didn't say "to the detriment of all else" when I said I wanted "X." And I don't think women are "only" capable of one thing at a time.
And at least, HE's learned how to sign his name, unlike some presumed dyslexic arsonists with a fondness for generalized pejudice. (Don't mind me, I'm just flirting with fancy words.)
Alex, careful there. The USA have some quirky laws that very much explain the falling out of fashion of flirting. Especially at work.
"So nice doesn't work" [for getting dates]
My mother would really love to see me "behave" more impeccably in the world. Always be serious, no jokes at all, etc. I don't think so. I don't dance on tables, but I don't play marching penguins either. The only viable way is to be oneself. And eventually change that self if need be, but not disguise it under some mask. You can't wear a mask all your life, Master Bruce.
I'm really not so sure I'm interested by shallow girls with double standards. Once again Final's opinions and mine meet. Siliconed airhead dates typical meathead? Good for them, they're matched, I promise not to be jealous. My quest is elsewhere.
"The other was a drunken flirtation (on both sides) that went tremendously wrong romantically, but a good 5 year friendship came out of it, go figure..."
I figure you're more mature than the average neanderthal. Perhaps it's as simple as that? Friendships are important too. And it takes above average sense to realize that romance and friendship don't have to be mutually exclusive, with people forever sorted in one or the other. Maturity is such a rare commodity in the world...
"(Oh, and ain't it fun to type "@$$hole" over and over?)"
I've found it $uper c00l since I was nine!!! ;-)
Y'know, Final, the fact that you chose that avatar photo is still telling something. Perhaps just a willingness to communicate, to make efforts. But damn it, you're absolutely right: it's not what SHOWS of a personality that counts, it's what will act and behave. Being an authentic person is a priceless quality!
Terry, best of luck to you. With the good sense you show, you deserve it. Besides, there comes a moment when a moderate age difference becomes meaningless. For instance, if you were 80 and her 90, would 10 years still matter? :-) Do keep me informed on how you're doing.
Final Identity said... "I don't think women are "only" capable of one thing at a time.
Women have a notorious knack for multitasking. :-)
I do flirt. And there are definitely forces around us which seem bent on discouraging it. Most of your laments posted here reflect various conflicts of the natural will and destiny of individuals with mass-culture false morality. There are also women, even as we speak, working their side of the issue in other, but similar blogs.
Sometimes my flirting gets subverted or sabotaged, or I might mess up now and again by getting overly eager and impatient. But eventually I go right back at it, one way or another. I look at our Domai girls as if they were not just in pictures but really with me on the scene, looking back at me, showing off to me. I practice Appreciation that shows in my face and body language, and apply it in real social scenes. And I try to CAN the corny, outmoded chatter of gutless presuasive language that we learn from insincere or superficial stopgap relationships in the business world we have been creating. Maybe I don't succeed very often, but I naturally keep trying. Sometimes, like a would-be Hercules, I am deliberatly trying to skew the very foundation of what is treated as "important" in our public life. I hardy think that expertise of corporate tyrants in perpetrating attitudes of fear, censorship, and reprisal for personal curiosity deserves to be further ensconced in our common-mind IMPORTANT file. I vote for a much higher rating for flirting.
Take it from the top, folks -- God must be very sexual, very sensual, very flirtatious, and very fairmindedly playful, as well as very powerful and important. Why else should sexual or sensual attractions be incorporated as components of the reproduction processes of most entities in the Universe? Influences that mess that scenario up for any individual have to be misguided from some point along the way. This thoughtform probably could be expressed better than this, but some of you might get the idea.
"God must be very sexual, very sensual, very flirtatious"
In the principle, why not. But technically, who would God flirt WITH? I think these human/mortal concepts of sexuality and flirting are specific to us, particular forms of what God only wiews as Love, be it expressed physically or emotionally on our level. Things created with us like sexuality or physical attraction certainly cannot be "evil", only some uses we might make of them.
In a way, you could say that God doesn't give a damn about politics, but wishes us to get along.
Can't some Gods descend in physical form and flirt with the locals? Krishna used to hang out with the girls all the time, as did Zeus (how else did we get Hercules).
You nailed old Jove perfectly, Joe. Holy swan dive, Batman! He would readily turn himself into RAIN if it could get him on a pretty girl's skin. (Golden rain, noblesse exige.)
Viagra, shmagra! This Ambrosia must've been some POTENT stuff. Plus, it seems to make flirting needless. Just pop up(!) to a mortal babe, and she'll melt in your hands like some fine swiss chocolate.
You know, come to think of it... I want some. I'll trade ya my soul, deal?
22 comments:
I'm so old, I'm invisible to anyone under 45 or 50...
Make a noise.
Develop a gimmick.
I wonder about this. I read (a lot of) internet advice about mating and dating. It seems the internet is the resource for all pronouncements about the way to get laid. (Reputable, traditional publishers are less likely to take on such topics, perhaps.) Many of the studies are unverifiable, or at best anecdotal. Few have a large statistical base. Most are done in one city, thus entirely failing to consider cultural factors. Often the "scientists" performing the studies don't even believe that culture COULD BE a factor. "But that's beside the point," they'll respond.
Nevertheless, I know that my own face is not particularly expressive ("negative neutral" is one term for it) just because of the shape of certain fat deposits relative to certain muscles. And I do quite poorly with women, more poorly than most of my friends and acquaintances tend to assume until after they've gotten to know me and heard the horror stories. Many folks who only know me from a cursory standpoint assume I'm socially happy, and am quite successful in dating, and that the reason I'm continually single is merely that I'm excessively picky. This mistake of theirs implies to me, that they have assumed I have choice and making poor choices. But the fact is, I have no choice. Maybe it's related to my immobile face?
Just a thought.
I think I was in my 20's last time anyone flirted with me. There's an effervescent girl at the grocery store, and she comes closest to flirting. Of course, vanishing home to a wife and kids after working in a male dominated office cuts down the scope for flirting.
I have thought about brazenly flirting with someone, just for flirting. It's a social pastime in working class Britain, but I don't see it here in the US. Apart from truck stop waitresses on movies.
Maybe I do flirt and not notice. Maybe I have been flirted with, and didn't see it.
But this does not answer the question. Assholes present danger. That is what "chicks" want. I had many college friends tell me I was a nice chap and a good friend. I even had one say that when she had kids she'd let me date her daughter. Several of my friends mothers said (even within earshot of me) "why aren't you dating Alex he's much better then XYZ".
So nice doesn't work, even if you flirt, or ask outright.
I know how I got 3 out of my 4 girlfriends. It was just be being a nice guy who was there. The other was a drunken flirtation (on both sides) that went tremendously wrong romantically, but a good 5 year friendship came out of it, go figure...
I've heard all the arguments about women falling for "alpha males" as well as for "good providers," and how the @$$hole contingent can gain some kind of advantage from that. I take it, but with a grain of salt.
For me, the women I'm actively interested in dating / mating with, tend to be of a higher level of education and socio-economic background than those who can be fooled by their instincts into just going with whatever "gets them excited" right off the cuff. So the quest for palatable @$$holeness has to be mitigated somewhat by the knowledge that my chosen group of targets only responds in a qualified way to direct @$$holeness and therefore my presentation needs to be modified accordingly.
All that theory to say, I like nice girls. :) (Oh, and ain't it fun to type "@$$hole" over and over?)
But nice girls don't tend to like me -- at least, not enough to DATE me. Sure, they respect me and talk to me, but actually DO THE NASTY with me? Not likely. And that might have something to do with my immobile face. The picture of me you see over there >> in a hat is a very strained gesture for my face. Inside, it feels like I'm going, "This is the idiotically goofy expression I have to make in order to please the person who is taking a photograph." That's how I tend to feel about any smile that someone can see at all. If I just let myself feel, "I am smiling," then most people won't be able to see the effect on the outside. Sure, it's fine for my own sense of self, and for my own emotional wellbeing; but it doesn't communicate to outside observers anything that might then lead to flirting.
my brother dates and sleeps with barflies constantly who are either hooked on crack or alcohol or both. sure he's got the girls but who wants common sluts like that?
i've met a nice widowed lady who drives a two-seated retro thunderbird and her kids are grown, she's a little older than me but at least she's worth taking home and building a relationship with.
barflies are common, good women are not. bank on it, i'll pay interest.
"the women I'm actively interested in dating / mating with, tend to be of a higher level of education and socio-economic background than those who can be fooled by their instincts into just going with whatever "gets them excited" right off the cuff."
Doesn't matter how educated they are, they still are ruled by the same caveman shit that everyone else is, and they will go for the alpha male type. It's the same reason women - though they won't admit it - like to be treated like shit because it's something deep inside beyond their control. At least, until they get older, then they realize those guys won't give them what they want. Nothing against women - guys are just as much slaves to their primitive side. No amount of intellect or education can overcome some instincts.
It's the same reason women - though they won't admit it - like to be treated like shit because it's something deep inside beyond their control.
I disagree. Some women do enjoy being treated like common dirt, but if they have "any" self-esteem or respect for themselves they won't "tolerate" that kind of BS. (Nor will I be treated like a common dog. End of story for me.)
Interesting that, when I suggested I wanted I wanted regular sexual intercourse with a woman who is physically appealing to me, someone indicated that he assumed I meant I wanted a loser of a woman who has nothing to offer but physical appeal and who otherwise doesn't have her life together. Same someone seems to have assumed, that a woman who has regular sexual intercourse is inherently less desirable than a woman who does not.
I find these sexist assumptions disturbing. And rather illogical, though common. I didn't say "only" and I certainly didn't say "to the detriment of all else" when I said I wanted "X." And I don't think women are "only" capable of one thing at a time.
Or to put it differently, why is "flirting" assumed to be inherently associated with "non-committal sexual liaisons of a morally reprehensible kind"?
Terry was right to shake his head.
And at least, HE's learned how to sign his name, unlike some presumed dyslexic arsonists with a fondness for generalized pejudice.
(Don't mind me, I'm just flirting with fancy words.)
Alex, careful there. The USA have some quirky laws that very much explain the falling out of fashion of flirting. Especially at work.
"So nice doesn't work" [for getting dates]
My mother would really love to see me "behave" more impeccably in the world. Always be serious, no jokes at all, etc. I don't think so. I don't dance on tables, but I don't play marching penguins either. The only viable way is to be oneself. And eventually change that self if need be, but not disguise it under some mask. You can't wear a mask all your life, Master Bruce.
I'm really not so sure I'm interested by shallow girls with double standards. Once again Final's opinions and mine meet.
Siliconed airhead dates typical meathead? Good for them, they're matched, I promise not to be jealous. My quest is elsewhere.
"The other was a drunken flirtation (on both sides) that went tremendously wrong romantically, but a good 5 year friendship came out of it, go figure..."
I figure you're more mature than the average neanderthal. Perhaps it's as simple as that?
Friendships are important too. And it takes above average sense to realize that romance and friendship don't have to be mutually exclusive, with people forever sorted in one or the other.
Maturity is such a rare commodity in the world...
"(Oh, and ain't it fun to type "@$$hole" over and over?)"
I've found it $uper c00l since I was nine!!! ;-)
Y'know, Final, the fact that you chose that avatar photo is still telling something. Perhaps just a willingness to communicate, to make efforts.
But damn it, you're absolutely right: it's not what SHOWS of a personality that counts, it's what will act and behave. Being an authentic person is a priceless quality!
Terry, best of luck to you. With the good sense you show, you deserve it.
Besides, there comes a moment when a moderate age difference becomes meaningless. For instance, if you were 80 and her 90, would 10 years still matter? :-)
Do keep me informed on how you're doing.
Final Identity said...
"I don't think women are "only" capable of one thing at a time.
Women have a notorious knack for multitasking. :-)
I can see why none of you nerds can get laid. Especially that carny hillbilly final identity.
Aren't you a ray of sunshine.
Glad to know I got under SOMEONE's skin ...
Oh, not just one person, judging by some of the responses to your comments you've received of late.
Let's just say your opinion of yourself - especially when it comes to your intellect - is not shared by everyone.
... responses which all happened to be signed "Anonymous", ain't that a funny coincidence!!!
I do flirt. And there are definitely forces around us which seem bent on discouraging it. Most of your laments posted here reflect various conflicts of the natural will and destiny of individuals with mass-culture false morality. There are also women, even as we speak, working their side of the issue in other, but similar blogs.
Sometimes my flirting gets subverted or sabotaged, or I might mess up now and again by getting overly eager and impatient. But eventually I go right back at it, one way or another. I look at our Domai girls as if they were not just in pictures but really with me on the scene, looking back at me, showing off to me. I practice Appreciation that shows in my face and body language, and apply it in real social scenes. And I try to CAN the corny, outmoded chatter of gutless presuasive language that we learn from insincere or superficial stopgap relationships in the business world we have been creating. Maybe I don't succeed very often, but I naturally keep trying. Sometimes, like a would-be Hercules, I am deliberatly trying to skew the very foundation of what is treated as "important" in our public life. I hardy think that expertise of corporate tyrants in perpetrating attitudes of fear, censorship, and reprisal for personal curiosity deserves to be further ensconced in our common-mind IMPORTANT file. I vote for a much higher rating for flirting.
Take it from the top, folks -- God must be very sexual, very sensual, very flirtatious, and very fairmindedly playful, as well as very powerful and important. Why else should sexual or sensual attractions be incorporated as components of the reproduction processes of most entities in the Universe? Influences that mess that scenario up for any individual have to be misguided from some point along the way. This thoughtform probably could be expressed better than this, but some of you might get the idea.
"God must be very sexual, very sensual, very flirtatious"
In the principle, why not. But technically, who would God flirt WITH?
I think these human/mortal concepts of sexuality and flirting are specific to us, particular forms of what God only wiews as Love, be it expressed physically or emotionally on our level. Things created with us like sexuality or physical attraction certainly cannot be "evil", only some uses we might make of them.
In a way, you could say that God doesn't give a damn about politics, but wishes us to get along.
Can't some Gods descend in physical form and flirt with the locals? Krishna used to hang out with the girls all the time, as did Zeus (how else did we get Hercules).
Yes, well, Zeus is a special case. Animal, vegetable, or mineral he'd do anything to anything.
HOWL! Howling Of Wild Laughter! :-D
You nailed old Jove perfectly, Joe. Holy swan dive, Batman! He would readily turn himself into RAIN if it could get him on a pretty girl's skin. (Golden rain, noblesse exige.)
Viagra, shmagra! This Ambrosia must've been some POTENT stuff.
Plus, it seems to make flirting needless. Just pop up(!) to a mortal babe, and she'll melt in your hands like some fine swiss chocolate.
You know, come to think of it...
I want some. I'll trade ya my soul, deal?
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