(The title is taken from one of my favorite songs by Ministry.)
Wonko said:
My wife (MGLW) [My Good Loving Wife. - the editor] was brought up with the Scottish tradition of Halloween, "guising", sticky buns on strings, spirits and the Celtic New Year. Trick or treaters there have to earn their sweets by singing a song or reciting a poem. As a result it's probably her favourite time of year. She really goes to town with decorating, carving pumpkins and so on. I've always hated it and used to either be out or pretend to be. Now I just let MGLW open the door and give out the sweets.
I don't wish this to be seen as Yank bashing, because it's not, I just really wish we'd never imported this North American style of Halloween to the UK. It's become a commercial exercise, promoting tooth decay, obesity and extortion with menaces by minors.
Funny, I almost posted exactly the same thought on Oct 31, but for some reason I didn't. In Denmark there isn't, or wasn't, any Halloween, but there is a similar tradition in February, "fastelavn". And in that one too the kids have to earn their keep by singing a song. And I think that makes for a healthier attitude to the whole thing than just going around demanding treats for no good reason.
Update:
Fastelavn is not related to death or horror like the Mexican or American customs, but the customes can be anything.
16 comments:
Great Yank bashing, Wonko! ;-)
I understand Halloween was imported to America by Irish immigrants. In America it was then pimped up to American standards, and after that reverse-imported back to Europa!
Nice.
It's become a commercial exercise, promoting tooth decay, obesity and extortion with menaces by minors.
What a load. I don't have a single cavity, but went out trick or treating on Halloween. Everyone I know is not a fatty, either. Please come up with some real reasons, if you don't like it; don't make up nonsense.
Joe - those really are the reasons I don't like Halloween. You may not have a single cavity Joe, but that's not really a statistically valid sample is it? If you like Halloween I'm delighted for you, but you weren't out on the streets in my neighbourhood that night. I'm also not making up the number of Police there were on our streets to deal with the trouble!
Spending on Halloween in the UK has increased ten fold in just five years (Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6099008.stm). US spending is $5billion a year(Source:http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&brand=msnbc&vid=b49cb3f2-fead-4445-905c-1bb8eb91e760), that's more than the GDP of nearly sixty nations (Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp-economy-gdp-nominal) as listed by the World Bank in 2004. Supermarkets now have multiple aisles devoted to costumes (of varying degrees of taste and gore), Halloween themed sweets and vast stocks of carving pumpkins. There even Halloween greetings cards! Once the big retailers are making a big thing of it you know how commercialised it already is, they're not in business just for the fun of it. Big business tends to be very risk averse, so they will not invest in things they aren't sure are going to make big profits.
Studies relased in the UK over the past few years have unanimously pointed towards our population getting fatter, less active and less healthy. Here is a link to a recent story on the BBC News website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7055735.stm - there are further related links and stories on that page.
Just to pick out a couple of quotes:
"Between a quarter and a third of children are thought to be overweight, and doctors fear there will be an epidemic of poor health related to obesity in coming decades"; and
"A recent report by the Foresight Programme argued that dramatic and comprehensive action was required to stop the majority of us becoming obese by 2050.
Its authors predicted that if current trends continue, in that year, 60% of men and half of women will be obese and cases of type 2 diabetes will rise by 70%"
As for dentistry, well the Glasgow Dental Hospital and School is literally World famous. It is an area that reportedly has the poorest diet in the UK (See: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=610862005) and the highest rate of heart disease from high sugar, high fat food. Dentists from around the World go there because they'll never see or have to deal with worse cases. My wife studied at Glasgow University, so this information comes directly from her.
I'm not suggesting that Halloween is the sole cause of all this, but it is a symptom of what lies underneath.
And just to show that it's not just my area, here are a few stories from around the regions of the UK.
Arrests in Halloween crackdown - BBC Bristol: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7072900.stm - "Last year, they received 715 emergency calls on Halloween between 1500 and 0000 GMT - more than double the normal number for an average weekday. They also received 2,797 calls to the non-emergency number of which 1,032 requested a police officer"
Trick-or-treater Halloween attack - BBC Northamptonshire: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/7073106.stm - "The victim, 43, was attacked after he confronted a gang of teenagers who he suspected had thrown eggs at his house"
Firefighter call every 45 seconds - BBC Northern Ireland: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7070509.stm - "Last year, fire crews across NI were called out to 540 incidents, almost 200 more than in the previous year. Many fires were started deliberately taking up valuable resources."
Man injured in Halloween attack: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/7074513.stm - "A West Sussex man is in hospital with serious head injuries after being attacked by a gang of teenagers on Halloween night. Andy Matthew, 38, went outside to talk to a group of about 10 youths in Southbourne, who he believed had thrown eggs at his window. Police said one of the teenagers hit Mr Matthew on the head with a weapon thought to be a scaffolding pole"
Now I'm not for a moment suggesting that all Trick or Treaters behave in this way, but a significant number do. The event is clearly a temptation for many to behave in ways that they would not normally. No doubt many others get carried along by peer pressure. Trick or Treating is taken by a minority to be a licence to misbehave without - they believe - any consequences for them, but it affects the majority. Remove the event, remove much of the temptation/excuse/call it what you will; however unlikely that may be, it's my personal wish and opinion.
Perhaps it is a problem that is peculiar to the UK and something to do with our physche?
I don't know, I can only cite my own country as an example, and it's my country that I'm concerned about. But the problem does exist here and pretending it doesn't does nothing to solve it. I'm sure Halloween is much more peaceful elsewhere, such as North America where it is much more firmly entrenched in popular culture, in which case you're lucky.
Eolake said: "In Denmark there isn't, or wasn't, any Halloween, but there is a similar tradition in February."
There are multiple sources and traditions that feed into Halloween. Lots of cultures have a day of rememberance of the dead, Mexico being a famous one. Of course modern Halloween is a very different creature! I understand that part of it dates to the Celtic New Year "Samhain", which had a lot to do with death - of the old year, plants and animals in Winter, people - and re-birth. In the Catholic tradition it is the night before "All Saints Day", or "All Hallows Eve" from which we get the corruption to Halloween. As with many Christian festivals it was at least in part a taking over of existing Pagan festivals to ligitimise Christianity; Christmas - Winter Solstice, and Easter - Beltain (Spring Equinox) being two familiar examples. I would suspect that Halloween was less known in Denmark because it was a predominantly Protestant/Lutheran country, and such traditions - or superstitions as the Protestant reformers would have called it - were done away with along with the Mass in Latin, Confession, etc.
I would be very surprised if Denmark didn't have some form of "Halloween" in the Autumn. Its original name and meaning may have been forgotten but I understand it was celebrated throughout northern Europe during the Autumn equinox.
You're good for a laugh at least, Wonko. The sharpest knife in the drawer you are not!
I hate to tell you this, but the problem of obesity - which everyone knows about already - has nothing to do with Halloween trick-or-treating. It has more to do with the increasingly sedentary lifestyle of children these days. Trick-or-treating has been around at least since my parents were children - the 1950s. Obesity was not the problem it was then, but there was just as much candy being handed out - more, actually, because there were many more people giving out.
Halloween is also no more commercialized now than it was 20 years ago. To say that Halloween has become commercialized is to make no argument at all, because it has been so for at least 50 years. Even Seinfeld wore a mass-produced Superman costume.
Also, don't blame your bad, Austin Powers teeth on Halloween candy. The British are world famous for their ugly teeth.
You might want to try getting some information that actually links Halloween candy to obesity and dental problems.
I'm not suggesting that Halloween is the sole cause of all this, but it is a symptom of what lies underneath.
That's exactly what you are saying. I said before it was nonsense, and it is.
If you like Halloween I'm delighted for you, but you weren't out on the streets in my neighbourhood that night. I'm also not making up the number of Police there were on our streets to deal with the trouble!
This is not typical of Halloween. In another "not really statistically valid sample," this has never been a problem in North America. Kids don't usually cause much trouble. Even the night before Halloween (Devils Night), the worst you're going to have is a few egged houses.
I did not say that I liked Halloween. These days I can take it or leave it. But when you're a kid, it's great. I wonder about anyone who wouldn't like it when they're a kid - it's more about putting on a costume and going out with your friends than it is about candy, although that's nice too.
TTL, I never heard of Halloween until I was an adult, as far as I recall, and certainly not from Danish culture.
Eolake, me neither. But I did hear of "pyhäinmiestenpäivä" which is what the church called it (allehelgensdag is Dansk), and later of "kekri", the original pagan name for the festivity in Finnish.
Don't be fooled by the word "halloween", which is an americanization, or by the associations with death and horror, also a distortion of the original meaning.
If Denmark had agriculture they almost certainly had an autumn festivity around the equinox when the crops had been harvested. At this time of the year, with the big tasks completed, it was time to take it a little easier and also take time to remember your deceased loved ones. This was also the "kick off" for the festivity season which ended around winter solstice (Yule).
in Dansk.
Don't be fooled by the word "halloween", which is an americanization, or by the associations with death and horror, also a distortion of the original meaning.
What, that makes it inferior somehow?
Joe - there's no need to insult people to try and make your point.
"To say that Halloween has become commercialized is to make no argument at all, because it has been so for at least 50 years."
Not in the UK it hasn't! Which was exactly the one of the points I was making about why I don't like it. Sorry to contradict you, but Halloween is in my opinion over commercialised. Your use of language, spelling and cultural references and examples point to you being from North America (if that's incorrect I apologise). If you are from there I guess you just don't notice it so much as we do in Europe.
"Trick-or-treating has been around at least since my parents were children - the 1950s. Obesity was not the problem it was then, but there was just as much candy being handed out - more, actually, because there were many more people giving out."
Again, not in the UK. Don't forget that sweet rationing due to the Second World War didn't stop here until the 1950s. Also, on average the UK population does not have the same amount of disposable income the US has enjoyed for much of the 20th Century - and never has. The relative affluence we have enjoyed in the last ten to fifteen years is very much the exception. When money's tight, and the rent's overdue, it doesn't get spent on sweets.
"I'm not suggesting that Halloween is the sole cause of all this, but it is a symptom of what lies underneath.
That's exactly what you are saying."
No it's not, and if you can't see the difference there's not much I can do about that. Are you really saying that giving children buckets of sugar will have no effect on them whatsoever?
"The British are world famous for their ugly teeth."
And Americans are World famous for spending small fortunes on braces, teeth whitening and un-necessary cosmetic surgery. But sterotypes are so unhelpful.
"This is not typical of Halloween. In another "not really statistically valid sample," this has never been a problem in North America. Kids don't usually cause much trouble. Even the night before Halloween (Devils Night), the worst you're going to have is a few egged houses."
So, the 60 million plus people in our crowded islands don't count? I hate to repeat myself, but it seems to be the only way to get the point over - in the UK it is a problem and that's why I don't like it. Instead of dismissing evidence because it doesn't reconcile with your own experiences, appreciate how lucky you are that you don't have such trouble.
"But when you're a kid, it's great. I wonder about anyone who wouldn't like it when they're a kid - it's more about putting on a costume and going out with your friends than it is about candy, although that's nice too."
Then wonder about me - I'm sure you already are - and a large chunk of the UK population. I never went Trick or Treating as a child, it simply didn't happen. As I referenced earlier, it's really only been in the last five years that it's started to happen in the UK. It's a cultural import within the last decade from North America, that has taken on some nasty elements since its arrival. It's not about the dressing up, or going out with friends; it has become about money, feeding small children buckets of sweets and chocolate, and an "anything goes" attitude for gangs of youths. I would be much happier if it went away. You're ready to defend Halloween, fine, you keep it.
I apologize for the insults, but the thing is I was saying that although what you've said may be true in the UK, it is not true worldwide, and I was trying to take that view.
Are you really saying that giving children buckets of sugar will have no effect on them whatsoever?
Not when it's only once a year.
Apology accepted.
"although what you've said may be true in the UK, it is not true worldwide, and I was trying to take that view"
You're quite correct that the rest of the World isn't necessarily like the UK, and I don't think I ever claimed that it was. I'm sure you appreciate that most of the World is also not like the US, Mexico or Canada.
In fairness, I think a lot of people do react to what they perceive as the spread of a homogenised, Americanised culture, represented in part by the North American version of Halloween. I may be guilty of that, I don't know.
Not when it's only once a year.
Ah, but there's the nub of it! It can all too often spread beyond that one time of year. What about Christmas - plenty of chocolate and sweet things around then. Or Easter eggs? Birthdays? You got an 'A' on your report card? You see how easily it can escalate? Halloween just becomes a higher peak in an already high level of sugar. Perhaps North American parents are just more disciplined with their children? ;o)
halloween in my town has been peaceful and enjoyable for many years. i'm 47 and have extremely fond memories of all the fun. i took my kids out around the same neighborhood and even my own grandaughter went out this year. we live in ohio. it's northeastern usa and there is no violence nor brutality.
just pure and clean fun. as far as obesity is concerned, that's because most american kids are simply overeating and many are just plain lazy. none of them don't want to work these days. halloween is harmless and there are no roving gangs to deal with here.
geesh, this all sounds like the prohibition with cigarettes. it will NEVER NEVER HAPPEN IN OUR LIFETIME PERIOD! If you outlaw tobacco, out law booze too because it kills!
You're right Terry, it will never happen, that doesn't mean I can't wish it to be so. ;o)
Certainly in North America I'm sure it's far too strongly entrenched in popular culture to go away for many, many years. However in other countries where it's a newer import and they have their own traditions at that time of year there may yet be changes.
I think the problem in the UK is that we have imported the custom from North America, but not necessarily the traditions that go with it.
Post a Comment