Notes on life, art, photography and technology, by a Danish dropout bohemian.
When you drink the water, remember the river.
Saturday, September 01, 2007
Learnee writee Inglish
Does anybody know a good online course with coaching, for improving my style and grammar in English?
18 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Eez meester yoo sirius? Mee no know. ;-)
Honestly, man, I'm afraid at your point the only help you can get is from a university. I don't think online courses DO improving for your level. But then again, you can find almost anything on the web, cunt yoo? Saw good lack meester E. (Or eez that spelled "mystery"? Ym not shoor.)
I suggest you watch "Eastenders", "Coronation Street", "When the Boat Comes In". Then re-evaluate your mastery of English.
I see no problem with your written English. I am sure TransGlobal English is an emerging language. You need to follow descriptive linguists more than prescriptive ones.
Learn to talk proper, like what I does. (And that is Liverpool English).
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics#Prescription_and_description[\URL] There are two basic types of linguist.
A prescriptive linguist says how a language is, ought to be and will be until the end of time.
A descriptive linguist says how the language is used in the period of study. He permits the language to grow (or shrink) and simply catalogues what is.
The only reason for formalized BBC English is to overcome the regional barriers with a clear subset of the language we could all use.
I often slip in my grammar and vocabulary, but if I convey my meaning is there a problem?
Besides, if you want to improve your grammar, just turn on the grammar checker in your editor, and any errors will be flagged, along with hint on how to fix them. Sometimes I just can't fix the grammar error, not without talking all lah-di-dah.
Has the OU not got any ESL courses? like the old Bob Hoskin's series "On The Move", which was more remedial English and Maths (Math for our American fiends).
I didn't know about OU. They do have a three month course in essay writing, and a one year course in creative writing. (registration for the latter closes in a few days.)
I don't know if I have the discipline these days though. I have a very strong tendency to get interested in things and then lose interest very fast.
Descriptive: "as long as it works, then at some level it's technically grammatical, and you shouldn't worry about fluffing it up for some posh purpose; people communicate all the time without going to school"
Prescriptive: "even if people know what you're trying to say, they still think you're stupid if you don't get it across in a more posh manner and just bumble your way through it"
-----
From the prescriptivist's point of view:
Descriptive: "don't worry, be happy, everyone should talk like an idiot, that's what we did before they invented schools"
Prescriptive: "how hard can it be to learn your native tongue? a little bit of formality, PLEASE!"
Read, man. I know you already do. But that's the only truly effective way to learn about style, at least that I know of.
Of course, you should read texts by people who have the kind of style you would like to learn. I learned English from reading the U.S. magazine Guitar Player. Very practical, but later I had to pick up one or two other publications so I wouldn't sound like a Californian teen the rest of my life.
Come to America and speak our native language, "Spanish." Yeah, Spanish, we're not allowed to say our language is english, it would offend the illegal immigrants. Color that hypocrisy.
There was a series about learning English, called "Mind your Language" I think. On the first episode I saw, I learnt that the four-letter plural of "mouse" is not "mouses". Hugely educational. P.S.: That plural is not a rude word, either! :-) Gee, I know so many thingies!
Peaceful Blade, Thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to express up there in my usual over-convoluted manner.
Alex, Isn't that spelled "HURL"?
"Sometimes I just can't fix the grammar error, not without talking all lah-di-dah." Wow, you have a bilingual English/Lah-di-dah grammar checker on your computer? Man, how cool is THAT? Oh, I'm green with envy!
Final, Your cultural talents are definitely underrated. :-D I'm sure some day, somebody will recognize your potential. Uh... see you in court? Better defend a high-profile scandalous celebrity, you'll get more exposure. Back on topic, both attitudes have a point. There should be limits, and sensible guidelines.
I must concur with the othurs: I've learnt MASSES of things, both in form and content, simply by reading. It's not a perfect self-sufficient way to completely educate yourself, but it's one of the best there are. Especially in a foreign country.
"but later I had to pick up one or two other publications so I wouldn't sound like a Californian teen the rest of my life."
Groovy, dude! Far out joke you got there. Peace. You're radical, man, be free.
Sven McDuff said... "I learned English from porno movies. Now to master Danish..."
Hey, awesome idea, man! Thanks for the tip. Do you know a good school that uses this wonderfully motivating method? Besides, Danish actresses are so pretty. And, um, "talented". ;-) I hear they can make the dentures of the bishop's plaster bishop statuette clatter. Bispens gipsbisps gipsgebis gisper. Even if giant rods hardly crack in their hands, kæmpe kæppe knækker næppe. As they said in the group scene in "Konstantinopolitanerinde", the woman from Constantinople.
"A bit of fun they were."
And you claim you're not at ease with English? That, sir, is a preposterous statement if I ever heard one, what? Surely, my good man, you must be jesting! Now, lad, quit pulling our leg already, yes? Jolly good, old boy.
I'm not surprised that Brown is again in on the first seat in the most "radical" bandwagon possible. In 1995 I visited their campus because I have a friend in Providence, and found that 100% of their freshman English courses included no male writers. Couldn't figure how you'd teach Elizabethan Drama without Shakespeare, but GOOD FOR THEM they found a way ... :P
18 comments:
Eez meester yoo sirius? Mee no know. ;-)
Honestly, man, I'm afraid at your point the only help you can get is from a university. I don't think online courses DO improving for your level.
But then again, you can find almost anything on the web, cunt yoo? Saw good lack meester E. (Or eez that spelled "mystery"? Ym not shoor.)
U velly kind.
There must be university level courses online.
MysterE.
I suggest you watch "Eastenders", "Coronation Street", "When the Boat Comes In". Then re-evaluate your mastery of English.
I see no problem with your written English. I am sure TransGlobal English is an emerging language. You need to follow descriptive linguists more than prescriptive ones.
Learn to talk proper, like what I does. (And that is Liverpool English).
"descriptive linguists" ??
You write it better than most people who've spoke in it their entire lives. It seems like any improvements that could be made are superfluous at best.
I mean far be it from me to discourage a man from improving himself, I just don't see anything that indicates you're in need of change in this area.
I'm in no position to recommend anything but I'd suggest READ, READ, READ.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics#Prescription_and_description[\URL]
There are two basic types of linguist.
A prescriptive linguist says how a language is, ought to be and will be until the end of time.
A descriptive linguist says how the language is used in the period of study. He permits the language to grow (or shrink) and simply catalogues what is.
The only reason for formalized BBC English is to overcome the regional barriers with a clear subset of the language we could all use.
I often slip in my grammar and vocabulary, but if I convey my meaning is there a problem?
Besides, if you want to improve your grammar, just turn on the grammar checker in your editor, and any errors will be flagged, along with hint on how to fix them. Sometimes I just can't fix the grammar error, not without talking all lah-di-dah.
Has the OU not got any ESL courses? like the old Bob Hoskin's series "On The Move", which was more remedial English and Maths (Math for our American fiends).
Before you ask - O.U. the Open University.
I didn't know about OU.
They do have a three month course in essay writing, and a one year course in creative writing. (registration for the latter closes in a few days.)
I don't know if I have the discipline these days though. I have a very strong tendency to get interested in things and then lose interest very fast.
From the descriptivist's point of view:
Descriptive: "as long as it works, then at some level it's technically grammatical, and you shouldn't worry about fluffing it up for some posh purpose; people communicate all the time without going to school"
Prescriptive: "even if people know what you're trying to say, they still think you're stupid if you don't get it across in a more posh manner and just bumble your way through it"
-----
From the prescriptivist's point of view:
Descriptive: "don't worry, be happy, everyone should talk like an idiot, that's what we did before they invented schools"
Prescriptive: "how hard can it be to learn your native tongue? a little bit of formality, PLEASE!"
I definitely tend to be a descriptivist.
Only I realized today that my education really is very limited, and maybe I could get better confidence and a more fluid writing style.
Read, man. I know you already do. But that's the only truly effective way to learn about style, at least that I know of.
Of course, you should read texts by people who have the kind of style you would like to learn. I learned English from reading the U.S. magazine Guitar Player. Very practical, but later I had to pick up one or two other publications so I wouldn't sound like a Californian teen the rest of my life.
Come to America and speak our native language, "Spanish."
Yeah, Spanish, we're not allowed to say our language is english, it would offend the illegal immigrants. Color that hypocrisy.
"I learned English from reading the U.S. magazine Guitar Player."
I learned English from porno movies. Now to master Danish...
Try the old Danish comedy/pornos from the seventies, like the "stjernetegn" movies. A bit of fun they were.
There was a series about learning English, called "Mind your Language" I think. On the first episode I saw, I learnt that the four-letter plural of "mouse" is not "mouses". Hugely educational.
P.S.: That plural is not a rude word, either! :-) Gee, I know so many thingies!
Peaceful Blade,
Thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to express up there in my usual over-convoluted manner.
Alex,
Isn't that spelled "HURL"?
"Sometimes I just can't fix the grammar error, not without talking all lah-di-dah."
Wow, you have a bilingual English/Lah-di-dah grammar checker on your computer? Man, how cool is THAT? Oh, I'm green with envy!
Final,
Your cultural talents are definitely underrated. :-D
I'm sure some day, somebody will recognize your potential. Uh... see you in court? Better defend a high-profile scandalous celebrity, you'll get more exposure.
Back on topic, both attitudes have a point. There should be limits, and sensible guidelines.
I must concur with the othurs: I've learnt MASSES of things, both in form and content, simply by reading. It's not a perfect self-sufficient way to completely educate yourself, but it's one of the best there are. Especially in a foreign country.
"but later I had to pick up one or two other publications so I wouldn't sound like a Californian teen the rest of my life."
Groovy, dude! Far out joke you got there. Peace. You're radical, man, be free.
Sven McDuff said...
"I learned English from porno movies. Now to master Danish..."
Hey, awesome idea, man! Thanks for the tip. Do you know a good school that uses this wonderfully motivating method?
Besides, Danish actresses are so pretty. And, um, "talented". ;-)
I hear they can make the dentures of the bishop's plaster bishop statuette clatter. Bispens gipsbisps gipsgebis gisper. Even if giant rods hardly crack in their hands, kæmpe kæppe knækker næppe. As they said in the group scene in "Konstantinopolitanerinde", the woman from Constantinople.
"A bit of fun they were."
And you claim you're not at ease with English? That, sir, is a preposterous statement if I ever heard one, what? Surely, my good man, you must be jesting! Now, lad, quit pulling our leg already, yes? Jolly good, old boy.
Thank you, old bean. Much oblique, I'm sure. As it were.
"Do you know a good school that uses this wonderfully motivating method?"
Brown.
I'm not surprised that Brown is again in on the first seat in the most "radical" bandwagon possible. In 1995 I visited their campus because I have a friend in Providence, and found that 100% of their freshman English courses included no male writers. Couldn't figure how you'd teach Elizabethan Drama without Shakespeare, but GOOD FOR THEM they found a way ... :P
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