Thursday, February 28, 2008

Introverts

NQ just posted this in a comment:

Q. How can you tell if a Dane is extrovert?
A. He looks at your shoes rather than his own while talking to you.

I like it, funny. It is true Scandinavia has a big population of introverts, including myself.

In the states, introverts has a hard time. It is a country so composed of extroverts and so enamored with the characteristics of extroverts that everybody, even introverts themselves, think that there is something wrong with introverts, something which should be "corrected" somehow.

Much it misunderstood about us introverts. For instance, most of us really like people. It's just that noise and company tends to exhaust us, unlike extroverts which get energized by them. More information.

Graham sez:
I'm enjoying this thread. Seems to me that Americans seem to be under a lot of pressure to be extrovert and promote themselves and we appear to be going the same way in the UK. It's a pity because there's room in the world for all sorts of people (not that flexibility in different situations is a bad thing).

It true that the pushiness and force which comes easier to extroverts can help getting the material advantages one might want, but there are abilities which are much more prevalent amongst introverts. And actually quite a few introverts are hugely successful, especially artists and intellectuals. Musicians, writers, scientists, etc.
An extrovert generally don't have the patience to sit alone and practice a craft for the long hours it takes.

22 comments:

Hannah said...

Never been actually sure which one I was before, but it's a lot clearer (and I understand why I do some things or react some ways) better after that article. Thanks, Eolake! :)

Oh, yeah. I'm an introvert. :-P

Anonymous said...

Q. How can you tell if a Dane is extrovert?
A. He looks at your shoes rather than his own while talking to you.


That sounds more like shyness.

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

Mmyeah, I guess.

Many introverts are shy, but of course it's not the same thing.

Cliff Prince said...

I agree on the point about the USA being overly enamored of extroversion. I've done my time with the Myers-Briggs personality type testing, and I've found out I'm kind of bifurcated between extroversion and introversion. The things is, living here in the USA, I'm seldom given the chance to "be the real me" and choose whichever of the two happens to prefer dominance at the time. There's a view that, if you don't make a killing by walking door to door selling encyclopedias and being hail-fellow-well-met with everyone, then something's "wrong" with you, as mentioned in the original post.

I suspect people like Bill Gates were initially rather introverted in a "biological" sense. They've found a way to make that introversion work for them, by sticking to a solo task which will pay eventual rewards. It's odd that the USA's culture tends to highly reward Gates' efforts, but then casts them in terms that imply that it was his extroversion which led to his success: building a business, meeting with people, getting his product out there. Perhaps it was the programming, and the computer planning, themselves, all done in isolation at a quite desk, which got Gates his success?

Cliff Prince said...

Oh yeah, and about the joke about "shyness." Introverts aren't shy. There's a difference, and it isn't just a range.

Some people are unfortunate to have been born with (or raised into) pathological shyness. This inability to cope with social situations at all, and natural instinct to silence themselves and hope it all is just over soon, prevents them from functioning happily. They want to get over their shyness and be "more normal."

Some people are mildly shy because of lack of social graces. They don't know how to act at a formal dinner table, for instance, and perceive that other situations might make them "seem foolish." This is merely a quirk of certain social requirements, and rightly should not be called "shyness" at all, though it leads to some shy-like behaviors.

Some people are not shy at all, but nevertheless tend to prefer introversion over extroversion. These people find that interaction with other people wears them out, so they would prefer a night at home cuddling with a single special someone, rather than jumping about from group to group at a crowded social gathering. Both introversion and extroversion have their advantages and disadvantages, and, taken in their true senses, neither is to be preferred over the other.

To be "shy" then can have a variety of definitions, some more useful or accurate than others. Looking at your shoes may just be Danish. :)

Anonymous said...

Part of final's problem is no doubt his use of words like "bifurcated" when a common word meaning the same thing would do. What do they call those? :)

Then he goes on about some of the same stuff on that website.

Anonymous said...

That joke has an odd resonance to me. When I am truly listening, I will often stop looking and, as a result of this, I tend to lower my eyes (perhaps a from an involuntary head motion intended to make hearing better).

Many people will find this annoying, or even offensive, for it appears to them as if I am not paying attention. Not to mention that I always have to be on guard about this with women, for their bosom often ends up in my line of sight (and I don't even notice). Ah, the difficulties of communication...

Anonymous said...

Hmm... I thought I was an introvert, but it turns out I'm just an unfriendly party-pooping nerd without social skills. I'm a loner, baby, a hermit! I'm shy and withdrawn mostly because I don't like people -- and let me tell you, people don't like me!

As for "won't talk" -- I'll talk plenty, but nobody will listen. I can't imagine why.

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

I know! It's a mystery. Especially when you try to help them by listing all their faults.

Cliff Prince said...

Yeah ... like using "bifurcated," which has no synonym in the English language. Golly ...

:)

On related note. Eolake: I'm very sorry that my posts occasion such vitriol from various respondents. I know that we all should just ignore the flaming, and I don't know why I've been singled out here at your blog for it. If you'd like for me to stop posting, in the hopes of reducing the childishness with which some people feel it necessary to consistently respond to my posts, I do hope you'd let me know.

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

Oh, do continue. Life would be a little less entertaining without our dear RAF.

Anonymous said...

College boy, doesn't it just mean to divide in two? Well, aw nevah wuz - aw say I nevah wuz - much fuh book learnin'!

Anonymous said...

"Oh, do continue. Life would be a little less entertaining without our dear RAF."

Besides, Final isn't the first one to have been singled out. I recall Pascal was their target for a long time. I've never been singled out per se but I've still gotten my fair share of the flaming. Final is just the flavor of the month.

Cliff Prince said...

Flavah flave ... :)

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

Final Identity said...
"Yeah ... like using "bifurcated," which has no synonym in the English language."


Sure it has! Split, bifid, shared, branched, forked, two-way, ambiguous, undecided, mingled, mixed, alloy... where did I put my English Thesaurus for a complete list?
;-)

"I'm very sorry that my posts occasion such vitriol from various respondents."

Correction #2: I fail to see much variety in these responses.
:o)

"and I don't know why I've been singled out here at your blog for it."

Probably because you've proven better than me, and therefore a more tempting target?
(Sorry, I've let in on the childishness temptation once again. That dang modesty of mine...)

Peaceful Blade said...
"I've never been singled out per se but I've still gotten my fair share of the flaming."


Reminds me of a joke in the Disney movie Elliot the Dragon: a guy finds the dragon in a cave, and starts shaking saying, "It gives me the shivers!"
The helpful friendly dragon, understanding that the poor human feels cold, promptly sets to warming him up, causing unwarranted terror and the start of a huge misunderstanding.
We should be thankful for the warm dedication of our dear benevolent heating manager. Why, I remember once, I was spending winter snowed in at the Overlook Hotel with this fellow, Jack Torrance, and...(blah blah blah yatta yatta yakkity-yak)...and some famous writer made a book about the whole thing. The result was brilliant (shining?).

"Final is just the flavor of the month."

Heh. Beats vanilla any day. "Hurrrry, hurrrry, come enjoy our absolutely Final flavor, you've never tasted anything quite like it! Now with a cute cowboy hat on top of every cone, yee-haw!"
And chocolate sprinkles turning the top ball into a smiley face.

Anonymous said...

I'm jealous actually. The worst I get is people politely disagreeing with me. Where's the fun in that? :P

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

You can try making a very long post, that often does the trick.

Bert said...

Or speak in an assertive tone. That's guaranteed to set them off! ;-)

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

Or be infallible AND modest. Worked for me.
Of course, it's not like I could fail at anything.

Um... unless I make failure my goal! I guess. (Or not? How does perfection work in such a case?)

Aw, gee dang, ah'm so smart, ah managed to cunfyooze mahself! Howabuht dat, hunh?

Anonymous said...

I don't mind a long post, if it's actually saying something. Consarnit!

Graham Giles said...

I'm enjoying this thread. Seems to me that Americans seem to be under a lot of pressure to be extrovert and promote themselves and we appear to be going the same way in the UK. It's a pity because there's room in the world for all sorts of people (not that flexibility in different situations is a bad thing).

Anonymous said...

Probably people would not mind introverts so much, even in the U.S., except that it seems a lot of people do confuse it with shyness. No one wants their kid to be like that, just for their own good. It must make life a lot harder.