Isn't it funny how solid "value" seems, and how subjective it really is?
Many women would tell me that $4,000 is cheap for a good engagement ring, while I would tell her that that's insane to pay that price for a little piece of metal and glass-like substance which has no practical use.
On the other hand I'd tell her that $4,000 is cheap for a Canon 1D, while she thinks I'd be nuts to pay four grand for a digital camera when I can get a perfectly good one for $200.
Of course in five years that camera will be a door stop compared to newer ones. But it is still worth it to some people right now.
... As for using fifty thousand dollars on a wedding which lasts one day, I better not get started on that one, I can't keep my calm perspective! :)
Maybe it really is like my spiritual mentors tell me, that anything physical is illusory, so the only value it has is whatever you decide it has.
39 comments:
Many women would tell me that $4,000 is cheap for a good engagement ring, while I would tell her that that's insane to pay that price for a little piece of metal and glass-like substance which has no practical use.
No, woman or ring is worth that. No way, ever. That's insane! You can purchase a home with that being used as a down payment.
Weddings are sO OVERATED!
Why wouldn't a woman or a ring be worth it? It's only money, and that's only valuable because we've decided it is. Our reality is built on common consensus.
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Right. Money is an abstract concept. And so is worth in money, by consequence.
We can expect an avalanche of testimonies reminding us how a working person's salary is seldom proportionate to the effort made in their job. (Final? Terry? Are you there, guys?)
What are love, happiness, health... worth in money?
"DOES-NOT-COMPUTE."
We can expect an avalanche of testimonies reminding us how a working person's salary is seldom proportionate to the effort made in their job. (Final? Terry? Are you there, guys?)
Hi Pascal,
Thanks for remembering me and what I do for a living. Money for me is very hard to obtain. Love is far more important than diamonds or gold. Love goes way beyond the blue.
Value. I guess it is in how much we treasure whatever it may be. I treasure love but I can't find it, perhaps I am looking too hard for it?
If I could buy a woman that would love me the way I once felt I would. But then again, I know that love is free and money cannot purchase it.
My dreams are filled with finding her. I'm not giving up, I'm just lonely. This song by Gordon Lightfoot reflects some of my feelings about the value of love.
I once heard it said that there is nothing worse than being alone. I believe that. Please pray for me my friends. God bless you all.
If you could read my mind love
What a tale my thoughts could tell
Just like an old time movie
'Bout a ghost from a wishin' well
In a castle dark or a fortress strong
With chains upon my feet
You know that ghost is me
And I will never be set free
As long as I'm a ghost that you can't see
If I could read your mind love
What a tale your thoughts could tell
Just like a paperback novel
The kind that drugstores sell
When you reach the part where the heartaches come
The hero would be me
But heroes often fail
And you won't read that book again
Because the ending's just too hard to take
I'd walk away like a movie star
Who gets burned in a three way script
Enter number two
A movie queen to play the scene
Of bringing all the good things out in me
But for now love, let's be real
I never thought I could feel this way
And I've got to say that I just don't get it
I don't know where we went wrong
But the feelin's gone
And I just can't get it back
If you could read my mind love
What a tale my thoughts could tell
Just like an old time movie
'Bout a ghost from a wishin' well
In a castle dark or a fortress strong
With chains upon my feet
But stories always end
And if you read between the lines
You'll know that I'm just tryin' to understand
The feelin's that you lack
I never thought I could feel this way
And I've got to say that I just don't get it
I don't know where we went wrong
But the feelin's gone
And I just can't get it back
Not wanting to spend (excessive amounts of) money on someone is no indication of "how much" you love them. You can't quantify love, for starters. I firmly believe that it is wrong (on MANY levels!) to squander that much money on something as useless as jewelry. If you have the money, then do something useful with it. Donate it to a hospital or breast cancer research or something. But of course, that's when Mrs Hypocrisy comes out and shoots you dead for not loving her..
I think it's safe to say that marriage is not for me!
You and me both, anon. :)
I think it's safe to say that marriage is not for me!
Me either. I'd rather adopt a "pussy" cat. Easy to feed, still purrs when being stroked, all are independant. Forget the living felines made of human flesh. They'll suck you dry from the day thet give you the "goodies."
Ain't worth it.
Eh, just find a woman that would rather see you donate the money than use it to buy something impractical, even if it's for her. Frugal women do exist. Indeed, I'd be totally turned off to the idea of marriage if I thought I had to marry someone so petty and materialistic as to think how much money I spend on her is an accurate measure of my affection.
That said, I can't say if I'll actually get married. As much as I like the idea of romance, the single life has treated me very well. Having someone else that's constantly sharing my space may well upset the delicate balance of my living arrangements.
Perhaps I'll keep it light and fun? If worse comes to worse I'm sure there's some whacko out there that would let me marry my right hand. If I'm really lucky he'll let me marry both hands. I'll give them names and personalities and everything! HAHAHAHAHAHA! *twitch*
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Peaceful Blade, well said, all of it.
anti-marrigae: "forget the living felines made of human flesh" ??? hmmmm.....
not all women are materialists and not all materialism is non-loving. For instance loving how beautifully a thing is made . . . .
We got married, after 7 days of planning, in a Zen Buddhist meditation center. We didn't have money for rings, didn't feel the need for them, but when our friends found out they were aghast and chipped in and bought us rings. In private we said to each other laughing, Okay, we'll put rings on our fingers! I wore a blue cocktail dress, none of our friends "registered" to buy us gifts, just gave us money for our honeymoon, and our honeymoon was at a friend's funky old house on the North Shore of Boston.
We had dated 4 months, and it felt very right to decide to take the plunge and make a bigger go of it, i.e. make a family. Looking back (we were married 17 years) I still believe it was a tremendously courageous and loving decision.
Our families were cool. We called up his mom and said, "We're getting married next Wednesday, justice of the peace, no big wedding, but we'll come down soon after okay?" She said, "Great!" Our extreme simplicity in the whole affair relieved our parents of an unspoken burden. Everybody was happy for us.
I am in a relationship now and happily not married. I don't think I'll tie the knot again, it just doesn't seem necessary. I like the feeling of my freedom. Strangely, way back when, the "no-exit" feeling of marriage felt loving and secure and even spiritual. Having children had something to do with that.
Returning to materialism, our marriage and honeymoon put our friends back about $300.00. We went to some fantastic seafood restaurants that weekend, and splurged on some really fine wines.
I've been married twice. Each time I refused an engagement ring. I think the whole diamond ring thing is silly and frivolous. Each marriage was very inexpensive. The first one was on a weekend pass (I was active duty Army) and I wore blue jeans and a T-shirt. The second one, I designed and sewed my own dress, had the justice of the peace in the backyard with with just family and then went out to a local restaurant for dinner. No honeymoon either time. I had a wedding ring the second marriage. I never changed my name either time. I never wanted the fuss of a "real" wedding with all that goes into it. Too much stress and money. I am not a materialistic woman. I actually go through my closet every year and donate clothes so that I have a minimal wardrobe. I hate to shop, believe it or not! I just don't care about stuff like that and never have.
Terry, If you are looking and trying so hard, it won't happen. When you are so desperate for something is when it WON'T come to you. I don't wan't to sound harsh, but from a woman's perspective here, a man who is really trying to find love really badly, is going to come across desperate and that is going to make him not as attractive as he would be if he wasn't trying so hard. Just relax, go with the flow of life, and stop looking and trying so hard. Just BE. Go out in the world and do the things you really love to do and relax into it. Be seen about doing things you enjoy in the public around women who might enjoy things you enjoy too and it will happen. It did for me. I found someone right after my divorce through a photography website that I belong to, b ecause he posted a photo of someplace in my town and I wrote an email to him. That's all it took! I had stopped looking and he nearly came to my doorstep and here he is and we share two passions, not just one - Photography and horses. It will happen when it is right and you stop trying to make it happen. A desperate man is an unattractive man. Take it from a woman who has dated a lot. Please don't take this as harsh criticism, but as something from my heart, trying to help you out there in the world. You are not alone. You have a big family here.
I'm not anti-marriage, I'm anti-commitment. Since it won't work, I don't think I'll sign up for a deal that is inherently doomed. Then again, it's good for the woman at the man's expense, generally, so I understand why THEY keep on harping on it so. Just about as much as a used-car salesman harps on how everyone "needs" a new set of wheels ...
Sorry, got started.
Actually, I'm a rare sort of very nice guy. I would never commit to an arrangement that I suspected I couldn't keep, so I've never promised something that I wouldn't live up to. Women ought to thank me. In other words, I haven't ever gotten myself locked into something that I'd forsake or break, so the pro-marriage lobby ought to laud me for the very fact that I'm doing exactly what they want -- never cheating on a marriage! Never mind that I manage this neat trick by never entering into one in the first place ... erm ... humm ... heh.
Then again again, I have looked at some beautiful women, met some friendly beautiful women, interacted with some friendly beautiful women whom I could have been soul-mates with, and thought to myself, "If only" I could land a date with someone so wonderful and interesting to me ... then I'd be all for marriage. I've never been able to get a date with the ones I want. If the next super-model with a degree in medieval studies agrees to give me the time of day (which generally they don't, because I'm not wealthy) then I'd be happy to reconsider my position on marriage.
It's really quite simple, actually. None of the girls I've ever dated have been very good catches. Me, on the other hand, I'm a great catch.
Yup, sure. Unemployed, no prospects, and losing my hair. Harrumph!
Signalroom, see that's a cool way to do it.
You too, Epona. Will you marry me?
You too, Epona. Will you marry me?
Oh, so sorry, I hope to not go that route again! I am happy in a loving relationship now and plan to keep things as they are. No more wedding bells for me!
Terry said...
"I know that love is free and money cannot purchase it."
Hey, the best things in life are free. :-)
Which is very lucky for the penniless. Remember the ending of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Burton's version? I loved that ending!
Anonymous said...
"I think it's safe to say that marriage is not for me!"
Hmm... Your choice. I still intend to take the chance. Seems to be working fine for my brother. Not to mention my parents. Of course, mentalities are different where I live. Marriage is more a commitment than a gift-buying promise package-deal. (Normally!)
Although I do have a cat, and am very happy with this forever faithful and loving companion. :-)
Peaceful Blade said...
"I'd be totally turned off to the idea of marriage if I thought I had to marry someone so petty and materialistic as to think how much money I spend on her is an accurate measure of my affection."
Thank you for finding the words for me. :-)
Selfishness is certainly one of the greatest turn-offs I can imagine, be it in love or in sex. Or both at once!!!
"If I'm really lucky he'll let me marry both hands. I'll give them names and personalities and everything! HAHAHAHAHAHA!"
You're funny, mister. I like you.
Mom? Meet my new friend. Can we invite him over, pleaaaaase?...
signalroom said...
..."and our honeymoon was at a friend's funky old house on the North Shore of Boston."
Ah-HA! At last, I know where you lovebirds had eloped all this time. I was losing my sleep from not knowing. ;-)
I love the idea of a discrete, intimate wedding. Even if... being lebanese, this is probably utterly utopic. ;-)
"I don't think I'll tie the knot again, it just doesn't seem necessary. I like the feeling of my freedom."
Well, I sure am no official priest, but I feel God prefers a commitment with only love over one with only taking vows.
(Strict believers, here's your cue. Fire at will on the heathen!)
OUCH!!! Hey! Not so hard, will ya? I still need that head.
To me, the strongest bond is not an official oath, but sincere love. I feel this is the true intent of what is known as God's Law. "Love one another as I have loved you."
Terry, If you are looking and trying so hard, it won't happen. When you are so desperate for something is when it WON'T come to you. Epona said.
I'm not desperate. Just lonely. There's a differnce. It will happen someday. I know you mean't no harm but you misunderstood my post. Finding dates are easy, it's having the chemistry that I want.
Appreciate your thoughts on the matter. But I'm good. Thanks.
Epona, quelle domage. :)
Final Identity said...
"I'm a great catch.
Yup, sure. Unemployed, no prospects, and losing my hair. Harrumph!"
Hey, you've got a very cool hat!
And a nice smile, too.
Now, if only you could hear that from a nice and available WOMAN, you'd have it made. ;-)
And no, I'm not planning a sex change. :-D
Peaceful Blade,
Welcome to Eolake Stobblehouses Blog. Glad to make your aquantice.
We are like family here. Do you blog around and are you interested in becomming a member?
The purchase price is reasonable: Zero money down and no talk about politics or war. Mr Stobblehouse does not like these posts. Other than that, you can comment on anything.
Be careful of Dr Pascal, he's likeable but don't ask him too many questions because he responds with ten thousand word essays lol.
Any questions, direct them to Eolake, care of Stobblehouse.com.
Anon
Anonymous, I've been here far longer than you realize. I've simply changed my name recently. ;)
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Hey, Anonymous, you do post quite a lot yourself, don't you? I see your name *everywhere*, man!
Um... unless there are SEVERAL of you? Like in that Droopy the Mountie cartoon? That would explain the great number of comments. ;-)
P.S.: I admire your amazing courage. I didn't know my essays were 10.000 words long, and never imagined somebody would go through the effort of COUNTING them. ;-)
anonymous you ol' curmudgeon. I think you're just a teddy bear underneath your words. You don't scare me, in fact you're kinda silly and cute.
Pascal, no, it's 10,000. I counted last week. I also see your humor behind all those words.
You are an awesome tome-maker. Timeless stories, archetypes of ancient wisdom. Scholarly epics. (Sometimes I get overwhelmed with too much information on a blog format :) May the books be with thee!
Terry, I agree with Epona. You are looking for another person to fill your loneliness. That isn't a good foundation for a relationship. I agree with Epona's advice of letting go of the desire for a woman a bit. It might be scaring your lady away.
eolake, it was a cool way to go. I love the unconventional.
"You are looking for another person to fill your loneliness."
Doesn't everybody? I mean what other reason would there be for putting up with having somebody so close?
"Curmudgeon"? I don't know that word.
Is that something like "carjacker", with a blubgeon?
Bludgeon, I mean.
"I mean what other reason would there be for putting up with having somebody so close?"
Sharing the burden in household chores?
Financial reasons. For example, taking advantage of discounts in bulk purchases?
'Production' of children?
Having a sparring partner handy, for whatever reason?
For security. If you get a stroke or something, there's someone to call the ambulance. Or having someone to guard your posessions while you are out?
I am not sure any of these are worthy of 'putting up with having someone so close'. Having never been married I am no expert in this. But I am not at all sure the feeling of loneliness is the only or even primary reason people get together.
right. I hate going out in the frigid morning to sweep off the car and start it, my boyfriend doesn't mind. I'm inside where it's warm making his lunch. Zillions of little things like that. And a few big things.
re. loneliness, Eo, I'm talking about a deeper existential type loneliness that no person, place or thing can fill. At least that hasn't happened for me.
further thought: I have shoveled my own driveways, and gotten into good shape while doing it. It's just nice not to have to sometimes.
I have been married. I have been single, not in a relationship. And I have been in a serious relationship, living together. I can honestly say, all I have found equally difficult when my mind wasn't right.
and each state fantastic, one no more than the other, when my mind was.
But I am not at all sure the feeling of loneliness is the only or even primary reason people get together. TTL said.
Thank you TTL, you understand me. I like to share my life. Appreciate your words. And Laurie, I'm not giving up on finding a lassie to court. And I'm not switching brands lol.
Hey Pascal, where's my coach here buddy?
okay terry, I hear you.
Did you hear at all myself and Epona? It's okay if you didn't....
I believe I have taught you all I know, young grasshopper. The rest is up to you now.
Only you can tell whether you are only alone, or desperately lonely. Find who you are, and find your answers, like an adult.
May the Spirit guide you, young Te-Ri.
Old master Pas-Kao.
Find who you are, and find your answers, like an adult.
May the Spirit guide you, young Te-Ri.
Old master Pas-Kao.
Thanks master Pas-Kao.
Please don't insinuate i'm a child.
Like an adult? If I misunderstood please let me know. I am just alone not desperately lonely. But my foreign friend (like you) I want to share my good fortune with my lady I haven't met yet.
I also didn't mean to offend Laurie or Epona if I did. Laurie, I read your words and think I understood what you said. I appreciate your kindness in trying to help me and Epona attempt.
I respect all members of this blog even though many times I don't agree with TTL or Peaceful Blades thoughts, but they like me have every right to express themselves freely.
I enjoy my friendship with the bloggers here and I like Eolake. He's one of the few men I've ever spoke with that is honest and fair about most everything.
If ever anyone dislikes me than I would stop commenting. I don't like verbal wars or physical wars.
Take care all.
I'll probably find myself in a relationship sooner or later, and it's not because I'm lonely and it's not because of societal pressure. I'm not only used to walking alone, I'm quite happy this way and I will remain so for the rest of my days. I have found my inner source of well-being. Once consciously realized it changes you forever. If you never get in touch with it again your destiny will still be altered by the single moment you knew you were connected to it. If you are persistent and find a means to will yourself into that state, it takes an act of will twice as strong to break you of it. Changes may not be immediate but they will continuously occur until the gap between what you were and what you are becomes so large the past seems naught but the fevered dream of a madman.
All of this to say I do not feel the need for companionship. If I were to move to a far off mountain in a secluded part of the world I would live quite happily, although I'd never do that as I'm a stickler for modern convenience. On the other hand, I do enjoy places buzzing with activity, and I'll take nearly any opportunity to interact with someone new. Whenever I meet an exceptional person I am quick to call him (or her) my friend. Such a person is free to stick as closely to me as he likes, so long as he respects my personal space and doesn't try to pry into my personal thoughts when I'd rather lose myself temporarily within my own world. This is hardly ever a problem. Anyone who wishes to be that close to me either understands or is capable of understanding.
I am not obsessed with "special love", yet I am a romantic. There is no void in me to fill. If I never know the touch of a woman I will not die with regret in my heart. Yet, I know having someone by my side whom I loved with a deep, natural affection, who returned my feelings in kind, would no doubt boost my morale and help me along my path by giving me a new means of focusing my energy in a positive direction. And if she encouraged me to follow my heart and live fearlessly, it would be an aid far more valuable than I might be able to comprehend. I am certainly not weak on my own, and given time there is nothing that cannot be accomplished through a perseverant will. That does not mean my endeavors are incapable of being helped along by someone of like mind who shares a heart similar to mine.
I am never truly alone. No darkness can blind me to this truth, for I had to see the darkness as illusion to understand it in the first place. The same tricks can't fool a clever man twice. Perhaps I am not so clever, but even a fool is capable of being corrected. He just keeps taking blows to the skull until things finally click. No dream can hold the sleeper past dawn.
If she's going in the same direction, I'd welcome her to walk beside me. I'd enjoy her presence. She'd be free to leave whenever she'd like and there'd be no grief from me. All is temporary in this life; no use getting all upset over how long or short something lasts. Best just to take what you can from the experience and move on. If she would commit to me I would freely do the same. The way I look at it life wouldn't change very much at all. There would simply be another element to enjoy, another enhancement to creative thought and action, a synergetic energy that's uniquely the result of two acting as one.
There is nothing that cannot be done by the individual, for every entity is representative of the whole when you look at its core nature. That doesn't mean it's the most efficient or most fun way to go about things. It really depends on the specifics of each case. In mine, I'm flexible. Whether alone or with others, I remain standing. Whatever may come, it will be for the best. It is my decision to allow the best to come via whatever means it wishes. If my spirit says I am better off flying solo, so be it. If it sees fit to bring a lover into my life, I will embrace her from the moment I meet her until the day one of us dies. If there is another possibility and that is the path to follow, I'll walk it without hesitation. The truth is that each of these potentialities could have effects far beyond the reach of human comprehension. Of course there's the practical aspects of it along with the more abstract benefits such as emotional support, but love, real love, is by far the greatest mystery of all. There's no quantifying it or explaining it. It simply is, and while it shouldn't be limited only to specific people within your life, when there is a natural and deep affection for someone it should be considered that you've something more to offer each other than common strangers do. Inspiration can come in any form, including that of another person.
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Terry, I do hear you. (smile) I don't mean to be critical of you. Neither do I like arguing, what good is it? You'll find your loving mate, no doubt right around the corner. Thanks for your kind words. Keep posting!
Laurie
Terry,
Just a parody of classic kung-fu movies, buddy. I'm actually 36, so you're the eldest here. :-)
Okay, so perhaps I should explain the bit I intended seriously: we all become adults, physically. However, becoming an adult mentally is the endeavour of a whole lifetime. The quest for more wisdom never ends. I've sometimes met hopelessly childish old people, and NOT in a good way.
The good news is, since you're an adult, your quest already started long ago. Just like mine.
Me am hope this make things clearer, touchy young disciple? :-D
Old wrinkled geezer Pas-K-O.
Me tired now, good night honorable Teriyaki.
"If ever anyone dislikes me than I would stop commenting. I don't like verbal wars or physical wars."
If you discover a way to go into fisticuffs through the internet, I'm sure the Pentagon or the CIA would be very interested. And you'd probably become a very rich man. (Provided you don't mind changing identities for safety reasons!) ;-)
Peaceful Blade,
Basically, if I understand you correctly, you could live without a loving mate, but you'd welcome one if you happened to meet. Sounds very balanced, and therefore wise.
Myself, I hope to find a sister soul, but I don't feel *incomplete* right now either. Being a couple means becoming SOMETHING MORE. It's the principle of a team, roughly. A very special kind of team for which we humans are specially apt.
I think you should be ready to welcome it. If you meet a woman who's ready to accept your unusual attitude and thinking, chances are you'd do great together. You already have a correct attitude, by realizing that this "incompleteness" thing is a myth.
And yet... have you ever been in love? You never see things the same after that. Like your aforementioned experiences and revelations. It changes you, reveals something in you. There are many paths through which to find knowledge.
After all this time, I'm still not sure I fully understand you. But this definitely makes you darn interesting! (A pity then that I'm a faraway hetero man, hunh? Or this could have become MORE interesting.)
Oh, I forgot! Sorry Eolake, the rules are "no lonely hearts ads here". So, let's just say I'm not lonely, just "available". Okay, ladies? (Heavy winking.)
"The same tricks can't fool a clever man twice."
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, um... er... you won't fool me again!" (George W. Bush, unconventional philosopher)
"even a fool is capable of being corrected. He just keeps taking blows to the skull until things finally click."
Or crack! It depends. :o)
"There is nothing that cannot be done by the individual"
Um... not even children? How do you pull off such a clever trick?
I think for this specific endeavour, an individual cannot be completely self-sufficient. You need at least the complementary gamete. That one, irreplaceable cell that you don't have.
Perhaps Nature is giving us a hint there?...
"love, real love, is by far the greatest mystery of all."
Well spotted. Looks like you've got it all figured out, as much as is currently possible.
I hope you get to explore that mystery some day.
Are your bags packed for the trip yet? :-)
"Maybe it really is like my spiritual mentors tell me, that anything physical is illusory, so the only value it has is whatever you decide it has."
This is my understanding, too. 100%.
Apple will reportedly release an 8-core Mac Pro anyday now. How valuable is this piece of novel engineering work?
To some, very valuable. To others, worthless. It's only a piece of aluminum, plastic and silicon. But if you use those eight processors to record and mix a new 'Imagine' that ends up transforming the world into a peaceful civilisation, I'd say it has some practical value.
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