I've got somewhere a quite amazing photo of a sculpture by Mihelangelo : a Christ on the Cross, fully naked. And also, IMHO, fully respectful. Apart from that small inacurate detail, that he has no circumcision... Old Mike was a great admirer of the human anatomy. (But I don't think posting that photo here would feel non-offensive to everyone, so I'll abstain!)
I also believe it is historical fact, that crucifixion under the Romans was a deliberately demeaning way of execution, designed as humiliating and inflicted only to "low-life criminals". (Which made the sentencing of Jesus of Nazareth rather exceptional, considering the charges against him!) Nudity of the condemned was a part of it. And the Roman occupant had very little consideration for the Jews. The jewish intense "cultural" embarrassment toward nakedness probably amused them a lot! I'm pretty sure the Romans, who themselves had little problems with being nude in public under several circumstances, would not have bothered giving "some obscure nutty jewish predicator" a modesty-covering undergarment. This has been added by the Church later on, clearly.
What probably bothers me most, as a doctor (and it has bothered me since I was a child), is the grotesque standard in certain art pieces and certain periods, to shrink the female breasts and male genitals to a ridiculous point. Even embarrassing! At least, I'd say, embarrassing for those who agreed that these be shown, but insisted in lying with the obvious details of nature. I've sometimes seen bigger proportions in babies!
More comments to come after I check that debate link.
(Um... Sir Luke : "wifes agree"??? Did you mean "wife agrees", or "wives agree"? Are you mormon?)
"And the Roman occupant had very little consideration for the Jews. The jewish intense "cultural" embarrassment toward nakedness probably amused them a lot! "
Yeah, like the American military who shaves the religiously significant beard off muslim prisoners.
And why does it seem like it's the center of the entire piece of work?
Because many humans are just plain idiots. They do shrink the sizes of the breasts and penis' all the time. Absurd isn't it? If a woman has huge breasts then so be it. Or if a male is well endowed shouldn't it be reproduced the way it was viewed? Some people who claim adulthood are really simply-minded children masquerading in an adult body.
No applause please just throw some money, I might be getting married again. Thank you.
I have a question for both Eolake and Pascal. In your countries do they have unisex restrooms? I ask this because in America I've not seen any. No, I'm not a deviant, or twisted, I'm just curious because America puts on this front that they are so moral that it is for the most part an evil thing. Thank you gentlemen. Hannah your encouraged to share your thoughts on this from the female point of view.
Here in mainland Europe, I don't think I've ever really seen public restrooms that weren't split. The only times are when I've been to bigger LAN parties so they shut the one set of bathrooms to clean them and open the other set... rather uncomfortable, really... but maybe that's just conditioning.
Northern United States Eolake. Some people here have requested them so they could change their infants diapers and so forth but the mall managers said that it was not necessary. Wal-Mart refuses that issue among numerous other things that are important to customers.
"Or if a male is well endowed shouldn't it be reproduced the way it was viewed?" In that case, don't watch "Superman Returns". I read that the actor was naturally too well endowed in the opinion of some, so they had his "attributes" digitally shrinked in all scenes where he's in spandex. Now I'm gonna start feeling self-conscious next time I go to the beach! That's a first...
About restrooms, I live in Lebanon. Do you need to ask the question in a conservative oriental country? Didn't think so. Although I think the norm is separate restroons everywhere, even in "relaxed" France. The main reason for this "segregation" probably being, as you said, that there are too many sadly immature perverts among men.
"Hannah said... Umm... female point of view on rest rooms? :)" I'd say it must be notably lower than that of men. (You know, because women SIT when they use a rest room? Uh... never mind!)
"I read that the actor was naturally too well endowed in the opinion of some, so they had his "attributes" digitally shrinked in all scenes where he's in spandex."
It's funny, thirty years ago, I read exactly the opposite about Christopher Reeve.
"It's funny, thirty years ago, I read exactly the opposite about Christopher Reeve." WHAT?!?!? Chris Reeve, my idol, had in truth a small package? Oh, the trauma! The agony! The horror! My life is over! Excuse me for a minute, I have to go jump off a bridge. Be right back!
Oh, don't worry for me. Bridges in Lebanon ar usually very small, and there is seldom any water running under them anyway. ;-)
"What we're overlooking in nude sculptures and paintings is shrinkage." I'm not sure this could notably apply to breasts... Although is IS true that not all locals used for posing are well-heated. Including those used by some very famous artists, who were less considered in their time. I've read on nudist forums that men tend to witness the opposite phenomenon. And not for any sexual reason, either! Simply because the conditions provide a little more sensory stimulation to the mobile male genitals. Basic physiology. But this probably does not apply to a long-lasting still pose.
"Then again.. at the end of the day, who cares about the size?" Well, when you see men who have near-microscopic attributes, or shaved nude women with no visible labia, I think we're out of the censor's pan and into the size. Or rather the opposite!
Besides, at the end of the day, I certainly don't care one bit about the flaccid size, indeed. Because there's no point, if you catch my drift... :-) Yes, honey, just turning off the computer, and I'll be right over. You hold that thought!!!
another "female" point of view: let the guys have their bathrooms. At our school we have a couple of unisex bathrooms and the women hate it when men go in there. Need I go into details? Ugh. I am a "Princess Pretty Petals". Men leave the seats up, or down, and sprinkled. And bathrooms when women come out smell like apple lotion. when men come out it smells different.
re. penis sizes and art, it would simply be too outrageous to exhibit a fully erect penis in art. The world is not ready for it. We want the template of idealization. We don't want to be too excited or moved. It might mean we are not fully in control.
Reminds me of Rilke's poem where he talks about the marble statue of the male god, and the area of the statue that the eye is drawn to.... we can't stand it for too long . . . .so to relieve the tension, The last line of the poem reads, "You must change your life."
Men leave the seats up, or down, and sprinkled. And bathrooms when women come out smell like apple lotion. when men come out it smells different.
Yeah..........right. Sure. Not all men behave that way. Apple lotion? Pleasssssssssse. So you are saying men are animals and women are just beautiful human beings who are gracefully cleaner? What planet do you inhabit? I'm not trying to sound mean either. What do you mean by, "it smells different?" Are you casting stones?
anonymous. I was being light. I'm sorry for offending! oy vay. Yes, women can be prissy. Men can be gentlemen. I'm just having some fun. I actually feel very partial to your gender.
Anonymous, what do you LIKE about this blog?
You know, last night I had two glasses of wine. Maybe I ought to be extra careful when I drink wine and blog. I lose my comportment ....
sending love to all the bloggers, especially to anonymous.
"Men leave the seats up, or down, and sprinkled." Do you know that household in the Tool Time sitcom? One mother, one father, and three boys, ruh-ruh-ruh! This is precisely like the one where I grew up. We shared a single bathroom for 28 years. My mother ONCE asked us to bother and sit, whatever we have to do in the toilet. She was the one who cleaned it up, you see. She never had to ask twice. No, she's not so terrible, my mother. On the contrary, she's so sweet you couldn't say no to her. :-)
My fellow guys, just because we CAN do it, doesn't mean we must. Leave our little anatomical advantage for these times when you're out in the forest. Trust me, some basic consideration shown to a woman can go a VERY long way! And some habits are amazingly easy to pick.
"And bathrooms when women come out smell like apple lotion. when men come out it smells different." I know, I know. I have a female relative who doesn't fart. Never has, if you ask her. "Classy people simply don't." Well, except for that very sonorous time in a crowded public place. It happened on June 26th, 1964, at precisely 1514 hours, and now it is forever in the family's official records.
More to the point, I like the way air smells so good behind some women who really take care of themselves. The seduction of perfume is no myth! :-)
"re. penis sizes and art, it would simply be too outrageous to exhibit a fully erect penis in art." Go on Wikipedia.org, and look for roman art and Priapus. Things haven't always been this way. [Advisory : explicit phallic artworks stand ahead. Prude-ceed with caution.] "Male pride, yo!"
Last October, there was a modern art exposition in London, called "USA Today", that precisely stirred quite a bit of a storm in a teacup, I'll say. It featured works like Ellen Altfest's hyperrealistic «Penis», Terence Koh's «Big White Cock», or Gerald Davis' «Linsey’s poo»; not to mention a non-empty urinal, and a composition comprising semen squirts on news articles, called «Fuck the Police». Oddly enough, the word "outrageous" came up among the critics. Along with "pornography".
"You know, last night I had two glasses of wine. Maybe I ought to be extra careful when I drink wine and blog. I lose my comportment ...." Well, thank you very much for the tip. ;-)
21 comments:
Pure Art. Period. There's nothing wrong with the human form. Even my wifes agree.
I've got somewhere a quite amazing photo of a sculpture by Mihelangelo : a Christ on the Cross, fully naked. And also, IMHO, fully respectful. Apart from that small inacurate detail, that he has no circumcision... Old Mike was a great admirer of the human anatomy. (But I don't think posting that photo here would feel non-offensive to everyone, so I'll abstain!)
I also believe it is historical fact, that crucifixion under the Romans was a deliberately demeaning way of execution, designed as humiliating and inflicted only to "low-life criminals". (Which made the sentencing of Jesus of Nazareth rather exceptional, considering the charges against him!) Nudity of the condemned was a part of it.
And the Roman occupant had very little consideration for the Jews. The jewish intense "cultural" embarrassment toward nakedness probably amused them a lot! I'm pretty sure the Romans, who themselves had little problems with being nude in public under several circumstances, would not have bothered giving "some obscure nutty jewish predicator" a modesty-covering undergarment. This has been added by the Church later on, clearly.
What probably bothers me most, as a doctor (and it has bothered me since I was a child), is the grotesque standard in certain art pieces and certain periods, to shrink the female breasts and male genitals to a ridiculous point. Even embarrassing! At least, I'd say, embarrassing for those who agreed that these be shown, but insisted in lying with the obvious details of nature. I've sometimes seen bigger proportions in babies!
More comments to come after I check that debate link.
(Um... Sir Luke : "wifes agree"??? Did you mean "wife agrees", or "wives agree"? Are you mormon?)
"And the Roman occupant had very little consideration for the Jews. The jewish intense "cultural" embarrassment toward nakedness probably amused them a lot! "
Yeah, like the American military who shaves the religiously significant beard off muslim prisoners.
"Yeah, like the American military who shaves the religiously significant beard off muslim prisoners."
A more extreme image springs to my mind. Abu Ghraib. Nuff said.
Um... Sir Luke : "wifes agree"??? Did you mean "wife agrees", or "wives agree"? Are you mormon?)
Wives. Plural. Excuse my incorrect spelling.
Ok.. here goes naivety again - they're seriously smaller in a lot of art? And why does it seem like it's the center of the entire piece of work?
And why does it seem like it's the center of the entire piece of work?
Because many humans are just plain idiots. They do shrink the sizes of the breasts and penis' all the time. Absurd isn't it?
If a woman has huge breasts then so be it. Or if a male is well endowed shouldn't it be reproduced the way it was viewed?
Some people who claim adulthood are really simply-minded children masquerading in an adult body.
No applause please just throw some money, I might be getting married again. Thank you.
Yeah, like the American military who shaves the religiously significant beard off muslim prisoners.
Excellent example.
A more extreme image springs to my mind. Abu Ghraib. Nuff said.
So True.
I have a question for both Eolake and Pascal. In your countries do they have unisex restrooms? I ask this because in America I've not seen any.
No, I'm not a deviant, or twisted, I'm just curious because America puts on this front that they are so moral that it is for the most part an evil thing.
Thank you gentlemen.
Hannah your encouraged to share your thoughts on this from the female point of view.
"In your countries do they have unisex restrooms?"
Rarely.
Where are you, Sir Luke?
Umm... female point of view on rest rooms? :)
Here in mainland Europe, I don't think I've ever really seen public restrooms that weren't split. The only times are when I've been to bigger LAN parties so they shut the one set of bathrooms to clean them and open the other set... rather uncomfortable, really... but maybe that's just conditioning.
Where are you, Sir Luke?
Northern United States Eolake. Some people here have requested them so they could change their infants diapers and so forth but the mall managers said that it was not necessary.
Wal-Mart refuses that issue among numerous other things that are important to customers.
"Or if a male is well endowed shouldn't it be reproduced the way it was viewed?"
In that case, don't watch "Superman Returns". I read that the actor was naturally too well endowed in the opinion of some, so they had his "attributes" digitally shrinked in all scenes where he's in spandex.
Now I'm gonna start feeling self-conscious next time I go to the beach! That's a first...
About restrooms, I live in Lebanon. Do you need to ask the question in a conservative oriental country? Didn't think so.
Although I think the norm is separate restroons everywhere, even in "relaxed" France. The main reason for this "segregation" probably being, as you said, that there are too many sadly immature perverts among men.
"Hannah said...
Umm... female point of view on rest rooms? :)"
I'd say it must be notably lower than that of men. (You know, because women SIT when they use a rest room? Uh... never mind!)
"I read that the actor was naturally too well endowed in the opinion of some, so they had his "attributes" digitally shrinked in all scenes where he's in spandex."
It's funny, thirty years ago, I read exactly the opposite about Christopher Reeve.
"It's funny, thirty years ago, I read exactly the opposite about Christopher Reeve."
WHAT?!?!? Chris Reeve, my idol, had in truth a small package? Oh, the trauma! The agony! The horror! My life is over!
Excuse me for a minute, I have to go jump off a bridge. Be right back!
Oh, don't worry for me. Bridges in Lebanon ar usually very small, and there is seldom any water running under them anyway. ;-)
"What we're overlooking in nude sculptures and paintings is shrinkage."
I'm not sure this could notably apply to breasts...
Although is IS true that not all locals used for posing are well-heated. Including those used by some very famous artists, who were less considered in their time.
I've read on nudist forums that men tend to witness the opposite phenomenon. And not for any sexual reason, either! Simply because the conditions provide a little more sensory stimulation to the mobile male genitals. Basic physiology. But this probably does not apply to a long-lasting still pose.
"Then again.. at the end of the day, who cares about the size?"
Well, when you see men who have near-microscopic attributes, or shaved nude women with no visible labia, I think we're out of the censor's pan and into the size. Or rather the opposite!
Besides, at the end of the day, I certainly don't care one bit about the flaccid size, indeed. Because there's no point, if you catch my drift... :-)
Yes, honey, just turning off the computer, and I'll be right over. You hold that thought!!!
lol, have really enjoyed this thread.
another "female" point of view: let the guys have their bathrooms.
At our school we have a couple of unisex bathrooms and the women hate it when men go in there. Need I go into details? Ugh. I am a "Princess Pretty Petals". Men leave the seats up, or down, and sprinkled. And bathrooms when women come out smell like apple lotion. when men come out it smells different.
re. penis sizes and art, it would simply be too outrageous to exhibit a fully erect penis in art.
The world is not ready for it.
We want the template of idealization. We don't want to be too excited or moved. It might mean we are not fully in control.
Reminds me of Rilke's poem where he talks about the marble statue of the male god, and the area of the statue that the eye is drawn to.... we can't stand it for too long . . . .so to relieve the tension, The last line of the poem reads, "You must change your life."
Men leave the seats up, or down, and sprinkled. And bathrooms when women come out smell like apple lotion. when men come out it smells different.
Yeah..........right. Sure. Not all men behave that way. Apple lotion? Pleasssssssssse. So you are saying men are animals and women are just beautiful human beings who are gracefully cleaner?
What planet do you inhabit? I'm not trying to sound mean either. What do you mean by, "it smells different?"
Are you casting stones?
anonymous. I was being light. I'm sorry for offending! oy vay.
Yes, women can be prissy. Men can be gentlemen. I'm just having some fun. I actually feel very partial to your gender.
Anonymous, what do you LIKE about this blog?
You know, last night I had two glasses of wine. Maybe I ought to be extra careful when I drink wine and blog. I lose my comportment ....
sending love to all the bloggers, especially to anonymous.
"Men leave the seats up, or down, and sprinkled."
Do you know that household in the Tool Time sitcom? One mother, one father, and three boys, ruh-ruh-ruh! This is precisely like the one where I grew up.
We shared a single bathroom for 28 years. My mother ONCE asked us to bother and sit, whatever we have to do in the toilet. She was the one who cleaned it up, you see. She never had to ask twice.
No, she's not so terrible, my mother. On the contrary, she's so sweet you couldn't say no to her. :-)
My fellow guys, just because we CAN do it, doesn't mean we must. Leave our little anatomical advantage for these times when you're out in the forest. Trust me, some basic consideration shown to a woman can go a VERY long way!
And some habits are amazingly easy to pick.
"And bathrooms when women come out smell like apple lotion. when men come out it smells different."
I know, I know. I have a female relative who doesn't fart. Never has, if you ask her. "Classy people simply don't." Well, except for that very sonorous time in a crowded public place. It happened on June 26th, 1964, at precisely 1514 hours, and now it is forever in the family's official records.
More to the point, I like the way air smells so good behind some women who really take care of themselves. The seduction of perfume is no myth! :-)
"re. penis sizes and art, it would simply be too outrageous to exhibit a fully erect penis in art."
Go on Wikipedia.org, and look for roman art and Priapus. Things haven't always been this way. [Advisory : explicit phallic artworks stand ahead. Prude-ceed with caution.]
"Male pride, yo!"
Last October, there was a modern art exposition in London, called "USA Today", that precisely stirred quite a bit of a storm in a teacup, I'll say. It featured works like Ellen Altfest's hyperrealistic «Penis», Terence Koh's «Big White Cock», or Gerald Davis' «Linsey’s poo»; not to mention a non-empty urinal, and a composition comprising semen squirts on news articles, called «Fuck the Police».
Oddly enough, the word "outrageous" came up among the critics. Along with "pornography".
"You know, last night I had two glasses of wine. Maybe I ought to be extra careful when I drink wine and blog. I lose my comportment ...."
Well, thank you very much for the tip. ;-)
"Oddly enough, the word "outrageous" came up among the critics. Along with "pornography"."
I think it is stupid to be offended by something which is clearly designed only to be offensive. The only thing to do is just ignore it.
Ah, but being offensive is an art by itself! Not just every ignorant is up to it.
Just ask my nephew, he's a big fan of Crazy Frog the Annoying Thing. He has the toy that goes "bram-bram-braaam!" when you push its willy. :-)
The first time his slightly clueless grandfather heard it, he whispered to me : "You know, this noisy thing is quite a bit annoying!" :-D
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