Lucid commented:
So long as we blame others for what we see in the world the fighting can never stop. Responsibility must be taken on an individual level and we must deal with our own demons if others are to be reformed. I believe I've stated before that to see change we must embody the change we wish to see. Absolutely nothing we try can ever work until we cease denying that the images we see are the reflection of our own selves.
It is something which is becoming more and more evident to many people, including me. It is not an easy lesson to learn. When "somebody else" does evil, of course "somebody else" is to be blamed. The desire to punish is worse, I believe, but even just the blame and judgement of this "other" is a trap.
I am currently reading The Disappearance Of The Universe, which is a very unusual book in this area. It goes beyond just handling the world, and aims for Salvation, and attempts to solve the issues of how and why did we separate from God, and what to do about it? Can we have both God and the world? Can we have both God and an ego?
To say this is advanced stuff is no exaggeration! It's like Buzz Lightyear's battle cry: "To Infinity, and beyond!"
12 comments:
We're all made of the same stuff, programmed the same way genetically, so it makes sense what Lucid says - it just happened by chance that we are the entity that incorporates our "self", I think we could just as well have become the "other" being. Who knows the mechanics of "who is who"?
I think for "ordinary people", the term "God" helps explain many things, but the "advanced stuff" - will our scientific efforts be able to make us "advanced"? It's a long way to go, failure can't be excluded. Think what leverage certain people have today using technical devices that can indeed "change the world" (Yes, I'm talking about terrorists).
But we also have scientists who can make new developments (stem cells, nuclear fusion, new energy, etc) a benefit for us all.
Indeed they are already using "the tools God used when he created the world", and I think "God" would be proud of his "children" here on earth using his tools for the benefit of mankind.
Please don't get me wrong, I have respect for these people and "their God", but their education hasn't been elaborate enough to understand the world of the quarks, so they really are in need of a "God", who gave them rules (which, in my opinion, were set up by some wise geniuses of the past) how to behave in this world.
I've been thinking alot, more and more the older I get, about the "advanced stuff".
Our world is a mystery....
with enough room for a mysterious, real God.
To put a finer point (Or not?) on what is being said here.
What does it say about us as a species and a human society when the threat of a dictator suddenly releasing his oppressed population as refugees is a greater threat to the governments of neighboring countries than if the dictator were brandishing weapons of mass destruction?
Two examples come to mind: North Korea threatening the government of China and Cuba threatening the government of the USA.
Mind you, I have zero confidence in the UN, but surely the UN High Commissioner for Refugees tries to discourage this attitude.
If all governments were to cut military spending to nothing and then take (what percent?) of the money saved and use it to accomodate refugees, Earth could take a quantum leap toward peace, and, as a bonus, toward ending hunger.
My estimate of the percent is around one (1).
Instead, we build fences... sigh.
Gen,
Just bear in mind that we're similar, not perfectly identical clones in our genetig programming. Each of us is an individual entity, with his own specificity. So we can't be switched around "just like that".
David,
Governments don't even need to bring military spendings to nothing. In Lebanon, it amounts to around 50% of the budget. In neighboring Syria, to 75%. Pacifist angelism isn't even necessary to spend money resources more wisely.
Today, formerly overpopulating Africa is facing a biological genocide because of Aids. With 50% of the population -in some countries- infected and likely condemned (simply because of practical reality), including children who won't even reproduce before dying, these countries are seeing their human resources bleed dry. Bitterly ironic...
I say, let the dictators you mention part with their refugee populations! They're commiting suicide, while these people, accustomed to surviving with one to two dollars a day, are NOT an impossible task to sustain, far from it! The only true difficulties lie with those who are refugees in war zones, and that's an entirely different problematic.
If there were a nation bold enough to welcome the world's poor and the unwanted, to educate them, and give them work without exploiting them into poverty, this nation could become a pioneering super-power! But I guess this would require an "enlightened dictatorship" system, to keep neo-liberalism abuses in check. Something like what Communism failed to become because human regimes tend to get corrupted by power and betray good ideas.
Perception can't change EVERYTHING. I'm sure the dinosaurs didn't perceive, or apprehend, the concept of a giant asteroid that caused their extinction. But we're humans, dammit! Our mind can be the most powerful tool in the (known) universe. If it can just overcome its own defects, like stupidity.
I do think that ego (narcissism) is the root of the problem. Too many people will prefer ACTING stupidly their whole life, rather than face the idea that they may one day have made a stupid mistake and reconsider their decisions or attitudes. As if anyone could be flawless...
Pascal,
Another way to say what I said is:
If large masses need to take refuge thither and yon, why should they be prevented?
Only governments think that they should be prevented. Why? Because refugees are a safety valve preventing the blow-up of war. Governments like war. War is the health of the state.
"If large masses need to take refuge thither and yon, why should they be prevented?"
So we're in agreement.
(Dang! I was looking forward to a nice verbal war with you, and now you've just gone and ruined my healthy fun! I hate diplomacy!)
My heart weeps over the recent resignation of poor "Ronald" Rumsfeld. No, really, it does.
(What, have you never seen tears of joy before?)
Lucid Twilight,
Humans have many phobias. Among them are that of naval-gazing, or, as pundits call it, thumb-sucking. (Obviously these phobias are ones humans have "grown" into.)
Was it Thoreau who said the unexamined life is not worth living?
Is this in the vein of what you're saying?
Lucid Twilight,
Humans have many phobias. Among them are that of naval-gazing, or, as pundits call it, thumb-sucking. (Obviously these phobias are ones humans have "grown" into.)
Was it Thoreau who said the unexamined life is not worth living?
Is this in the vein of what you're saying?
Lucid,
Don't underestimate the understanding capacities of animals. What we don't see (or perceive?) may still BE there. Remember, dinosaurs are related to birds, and some of these can be quite inteligent. Maybe you're still a bit biased by the old clichés regarding "those dumb blundering dinos". Last evening, I saw a sea turtle displaying a very sensible behavior in a new situation. After being caught and nearly killed by poachers, it knew to quit fearing and struggling when its rescuer took care of its wounds... It could have easily maimed the guy with a single gesture.
Very recently, it has been demonstrated that elephants, just like dolphins, chimpanzees and humans, can recognize their reflection in a mirror, which is a definite sign of self-awareness.
And anybody who has bothered to know foxes can testify that they are very clever... by human standards! Teaching sign language to gorillas has also revealed some very unique and moving things about their awareness, like that adult recalling the trauma when "men with rifles, mommy dead, scared very much, see in dream". With an expression that said it all.
To rephrase my example, let's say that a bullet can kill you even if you're not aware of its existence. Could WE avoid extinction by perceiving another giant asteroid? Not sure at all. Even if we had the sense to try our best... Just trying to point out that our perception's power over the world DOES exist and CAN be miraculous, but that it's not unlimited.
An example of how it works would be the invention of bullet-proof vests. :-)
I'm still not convinced that we could all simply be like Richard Bach's Reluctant Messiah. Otherwise, it should have worked with Gandhi!
"I am not the same individual from one moment to the next"
You are an evolving entity, by definition. Because you are aware and alive. Change is inseparable from life, because static means death. Or, in the case of spores, a near-death awaiting the conditions to restart and doing strictly nothing in the meantime. Life exists within the mystery that is Time. You certainly are free to change at will, of course. Consciously realizing this ensures you the full potential of life that so many renounce without realizing, prisoner that they are of their fear of any change in the world. (I call it the "Good Old Times Syndrome", or GOTS.)
"or that sandwich that's been underneath my bed so long that it's growing limbs."
Hey, Subby, you hear that? We've found you a mate!
Please excuse Subby's temper, his mayonnaise has been slightly bitter lately...
"I think I said something to myself once about no more late night postings... Unfortunately I'm too tired to recall."
When you finally do, please share your enlightenment. :-)
"I'm still not convinced that we could all simply be like Richard Bach's Reluctant Messiah. Otherwise, it should have worked with Gandhi!"
Funny, I was just thinking of Bach's book "Illusions". I read it when I was young, and I disagreed a lot with his message that everybody was totally free to do anything they wanted, even kill others. But I am starting to understand the Ultimate viewpoint that the body and the universe don't matter a whit, they are just illusions, a dream, created by ourselves. I think Ghandi really didn't give a frick.
And didn't the reluctant messiah also get killed in the end?
"At this point it is unlikely we could stop an asteroid from hitting the earth with thought alone, but I am wholly convinced that it won't be out of the question in further stages of our evolution."
Interesting theory. And appealing. The dinosaurs weren't that advanced in THEIR evolution either, that's for sure! ;-)
Many thinkers believe human evolution/progress might allow our minds to one day shape reality, or at least ourselves, at will. Like the final part of Clarke's Fountains of Paradise. When I see what "impossible" things technology already allows, I dismiss nothing for the future.
("When fortresses fly" is quite outdated, no?)
Me, as a first step I'd settle for our minds stopping from making huge needless messes! :-(
Maybe you're thinking too far ahead of me, y'know? Remember though : to get there we need to tread every step at a time. What good is having the gate key if the drawbridge is up? (But don't you lose that key just yet!!!)
Eolake, I think you're right about the reluctant messiah. But I remember that flash-back scene from Manimal, where the hero's father is at the end of his life. And with his last breath, he turns into an eagle that soars in the skies. The end may also be a matter of perception, nothing more than a transition that must normally occur in due time. (Perhaps for us to reach the next step of awareness?...) With the "destined" means being eventually insignificant.
"Inside of us is a world wherein absolutely anything is possible."
You're saying that, in a way, we think we are very evolved now, while we are still primitive cavemen, compared to what we've yet to become? (Hey, why not! My ego can accept it.)
"To say it's entirely based on thought, feeling and perception is in one way an oversimplification"
Okay, so we can agree on the rest. :-)
"I'm aware of just how far I've yet to go even if my musings on the possible are indeed true."
So, you're a dreamer, but not a fool. :-)
(In other words : DON'T try to start a cult, you're overqualified!)
"Many of them do seem to be on the same level as humans in many regards, but this says more about humans than it does about the animals."
Dare I say it? (Oh, what the hey, let's dare!) "Maybe it's just your perception!" ;-)
There's even more we don't understand about animals than about ourselves, after all.
"we treat them like we would pieces of furniture."
"Cats consider humans as warm-blooded furniture." (Source forgotten)
I've got a furry witness right here on my lap to testify!
(Purrrr!) Yes, my sweet pillow, I love you too. (^_^)
Seriously now, I don't see myself as superior, only different. (But that's just my own attitude.) I'll never be superior to a nightingale's singing, a condor's gliding, an eagle's naked eye vision, a dog's smelling, a cat's hearing, a sheetah's sprinting...
To each his own! :-)
"Mankind's superiority complex needs to go."
Ah-ha, you've nabbed it! We're a superiorly complexed species!!! :-P
"You may've already guessed that it's one of my favorite books"
Now that you mention it... it's not difficult to perceive!
LT, email me your snail mail address, and I'll send you this book.
"Now I'm able to do it with my toes while blindfolded as I hover above a shark tank."
Been watching too much James Bond, have we? :-D
"We're not advancing so much as we are remembering."
Oh, yeah. I had forgotten about that bit! ;-)
but I also say, "why can't it be now?"
You remind me of Al Gore's latest campaign for environment. It's definitely better to do it right now.
"we can affect the outcome by choosing whether or not we're limited by our perceptions of what is and isn't possible."
You remind me of those nuts who once claimed that a craft heavier than air could fly, or that one could go walk on the moon. :-)
"And if we're not... Well... Nuts to you!"
Make them hazelnuts, they're my favorite. ;-)
Nuts are very healthy. Lowers the cholesterol. (All except coconuts, mind you.)
"I'm gonna go hang out where all the cool people are and you can't come!"
No, I can't. Too busy eating these hazelnuts some nice guy mailed me. (Yum-yum-yum-yum-yum, delicioso!) Will catch up with you later, okay? Have fun!
"Plan B: Spend 10 hours of Final Fantasy XII."
Uh... sorry to spoil your merry rant, but I already have FF12. (In fact, I have the whole series, except for the online-exclusive FF11. Ever played FF Tactics?)
Final Fantasy 7 can easily help you spend a whole month in solitary confinement without ever getting bored. "They" are alive.
My little nephew definitely agrees that a pixel Dora the Explorer is always looking at HIM with wide friendly eyes. It's all a matter of perception, really. :-)
Side question : how on earth can a game called "Final Fantasy" have TWELVE sequels -and counting-??? Am I missing some perception about the meaning of "final"?
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