The issue of nude art photography concerns me, both as a person and as editor of DOMAI, a site with tasteful nude photos. In answer to an article on British Journal of Photography's site, I wrote to the editor:
Hello Ms. Smyth,
Thanks for the nice piece online about the Nude.
(Saunders' piece is not online, is it? I did not get the mag yet.)
I am a little sad to see the old chestnut being dragged out, the one about "nude art objectifies women". I really thought we had grown beyond that.
For one thing: what does it do to men then? I notice for instance in films and on TV, at least as much male skin as female. We don't hear any wails about this, and well we shouldn't.
For another thing, art or pictures does not objectify women, people do. And if they are dumb enough to do it, they will dang well do it whether they see any nude art or not.
As humans we are both spirit and body. We should celebrate both.
21 comments:
The radical feminist ideology is blind to the truth about the awesome and wondrous potential of beautiful, naked women everywhere to heal the wounds caused by its pernicious influence. As penance, I suggest that all self-declared radical feminists, the world over, come forward and submit pictures of their naked selves to DOMAI.
Zeppellina was very eloquent with her viewpoint, and I'm in agreement with her. Even though there seems to be an endless supply of right-wingers who complain about so-called liberal influnce regarding such matters, the fact is that there are very few true liberals here in America, indeed anywhere. What we've got are right-wing conservatives and left-wing conservatives.
I find it interesting that nude female art objectifies women byt nude male art does not tend to do the same to men.
I remember going around Europe a few years ago and I was taken aback by the artistry from all of the nudes. It is easy to see it in brush-strokes and marble. Universally, people say, "that is art."
It seems like when we talk about photographs - everyone can take pictures, and people see it less as art and more as nudie shots. Does not make it right, as I have tried taking my own pictures and they seem amateur compared with Eolake Stobblehouse and other professional photographers.
There is a difference between taking photos of boobs - and taking photos of nudes that express their emotions so wonderfully.
An interesting statement, Kenneth.
In your viewpoint, what would a real liberal then be?
Tried to edit my post Eolake, but deleted it instead, apologies.
Here it is again....
As a woman, I have, you could say, grown up, with the whole concept of the equal rights for women. It`s just something that comes with the territory.
As a woman, I would fiercely defend my rights to co-exist on an equal basis, with no restrictions.
The `no restrictions` part of that sentence, has become increasingly and extremely important to me.
I do not not like someone else, be they male or female, deciding which category a `woman` should fit into that day, because that`s what they think we should be, or how we should think or act.
There is no pidgeon hole for the concept of `woman`, just as there is no pidgeon hole for the concept of `man`.
In that we are very equal. We are all equally very different to each other!
I just wish that people who write articles on such topics would try to bear this in mind, because if they don`t, it`s all just irrellevant dogma.
Some of us women are actually of the opinion that we like the human body so much, that we enjoy looking at it, portraying it in various art forms, and talking about it in literature.
The human body is quite wonderful in its various shapes, sizes and tones.
Artists have portrayed both female and male bodies for centuries.
As an artist, do I objectify women?
If we take that to it`s absolute
literal view,
then...yes.
If I form a composition, then that body, be it male or female, is an object in my composition.
A beautiful thinking, breathing object, but a form and object nonetheless.
Do I want both male and female viewers of my art compositions to see the beauty of the sexuality of the women I portray...
yes.
What is wrong with the sexuality of the human body?
Are we to pretend it doesn`t exist, or that it is somehow...dirty and nasty?
As a woman and an artist, I enjoy portraying all aspects of the human body, be it male or female.
And I enjoy glorifying the sexuality of the human body.
While I understand that may upset some of the active members of the thought police, so be it, I have rights too!
In answer to your question, Eolake, A real liberal is someone who at least tries to keep an open mind-- like you. From what I've seen, so many of those who call themselves "liberals" have their own orthodoxies that they will not let their members deviate from.
There is, for example, the enviromentalist orthodoxy, or the feminist orthodoxy (which "anonymous" had mentioned in passing, as well as Zeppellina before she edited her post). The right wing is of course quick to point out these orthodoxies, just as the left will rapidly point out when the right degenerates into conformist thinking. The end result is that everyone is shouting at each other instead of talking to eaxh other.
Good point.
I never really understood how and when "liberal" came to mean "left winger".
"Liberal" per the dictionary means "Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry."
Making a political party on that is a contradiction in terms.
I think the nude art on Domai is absolutely beautiful. I've always looked and felt bad about looking ... but I think I've sort of realized that I don't have to, because it's really just appreciation of how beautiful people (women) are - nothing more, nothing less. And what's wrong with appreciation?
Jeesh, don't people want compliments anymore? :)
Ah, but you see. the moral thought police insist on protecting us, no matter what our individual wishes are.
I once had a discussion with a very militant young lady in a bar who
wanted all women around the world to conform to the same beliefs about what rights we should have.
I said this was impossible, women are not a collective herd, and we all want and believe, thankfully, in different things.
Some women want more rights, some women feel we shouldn`t have any in the first place, some women are for the right to choose, some are deeply against. And we all agree to disagree!
She said, woman have all been conditioned...they just don`t realise it...they will be made to see, they have to be re-educated...and by the way, you argue politics like my mother..you`re about the same age as her..........
...And that really was her big mistake.....!!!!!!
Okay, time to remove the kid gloves........!!!!
I felt an over-riding urge to systematically demolish the validity of her views in front of her little political pack (interestingly, two young male politicals from the same party, who very quickly fell silent when her views were challenged by another woman) and who she was performing as spokeswoman for.
I finished by asking her when was she planning to start building the camps.
She was most upset at being told her views were fascist.
The `vanguard of the people` very quickly found out that this woman wasn`t about to let them decide what her rights should or shouldn`t be, became visibly demoralised, and left. AH!....Peace...!!!
Yes, I was a bitch in slaughtering a over-zealous 20 something year old who should have known better, but she was alarmingly over-zealous and more than a little scarey, her insistance on "protecting women for their own good" was just too much.
I just wish that extreme politicals on both sides of the divide would stop making women their `pet project`.
Yes, I know, it was bad.....and I had fun, which was even worse......
Okay....I`ll go now.............
"I just wish that extreme politicals on both sides of the divide would stop making women their `pet project`."
Less so these days, but now it is CHILDREN!
So long as they can shoehorn "protecting our children" into anything, nobody can argue with them.
Yes, very true, Eolake.
We are all at the mercy of the zealots and I'm not sure what we can do to stop it without becoming like them.
I like to look at forms of the girls naked it shows the beautiful face's & more!
In countries like Malaysia and India, people don't support your concept on ' Body and spirit.' Well I support your concept.
I think that all beautiful girls in this world should have a course that gets them comfortable with their nudity.
Did you know that in Malaysia, women cover their thighs and even their upper part of their arms becaue its considered to be unreligious by the muslim majority in Malaysia. Even bellydancing, which originally means to expose thighs, bellies, and shoulder are somehow covered in this country in order to show respect for the religion of Islam no matter what religion they belong to. I think that Pascal will feel very bad because of his native culture has been perverted by the Islamic extremism in Malaysia. A male admiring a lot of women is considered to be one of the most immoral thing in their book of morality. One islamic fundamentalist suggested the government to have ugly women in their workplaces because the better loking ones will get married very soon. I think DOMAI's one of the most importsnt enemy are the Malaysians.
I am so said that my dad brought me here in Malaysia. I am so sad to be an Indian another conservative country. You might be wondering on how am I still alive and I dad keeps wondering on why am I so depressed. LOL!
One women had a logical reason behind to say against female nudity.
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you are talking about is not literal nakedness, but skimpiness, or "sexy" clothing??? In that case, I would say there are no pros, only cons. I am a woman, so it doesn't affect me near as much as I believe it affects men, to constantly see the bellies, cleavage, and other parts of women constantly being flaunted before them on a minute by minute basis-- from the tv, computers, and streets each and every day. It gives him less desire for the one woman he is supposed to see without clothing, (his own wife) because he is constantly being desensitized by the site of other women's uncovered bodies. So when he is supposed to be intimate with his wife, it takes more and more to keep him visually stimulated, because he sees so much skin elsewhere. I do believe it's why so many men are addicted to porn- their wives just don't look as good to them as she would if she were all he saw... How sad for so many marriages. Women do not think far enough ahead when they get dressed each day- that they are de-sensitizing the men around them... It's actually selfish for them to dress to entice, because men are so visual. No pros, only cons, to answer your question."
Is this the right thing?
I think that an unfaithful man will be one regardless of how women dress.
And also Pascal had a good answer.
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