Notes on life, art, photography and technology, by a Danish dropout bohemian.
When you drink the water, remember the river.
Monday, March 15, 2010
An American in Switzerland
I've heard that an American who worked in a Swizz bank, stole account information about hundreds of American citizens and supposed tax avoiders, and gave it to IRS. What do you think? A good citizen? Or an a-hole?
Interesting question. I guess if I had enough money to warrant hiding it in a Swiss account, my answer might be different. But, I don't and therefore I think he be a good citizen.
As a citizen of any country that collects taxes (is there any that don't?) to support the society of that country, I feel that everyone has a responsibilty to pay their fair share. If they don't, then the burrden falls to the rest of us.
I wrote the following article in/on my blog a while ago: (perhaps not everyone in the audience knows me for my special liking for saying things in an indirect way).
"The Person. You have a very regular and secure monthly income. You can even fix the amount of your income without too many problems. Everybody would wish themselves to be in a similar situation. Even so you're in DEBTS, and your continuing to make more and more debts. WHO ARE YOU????? are you a reliable, trustworthy person??? What ratings do you have????"
It's a bit off-topic, but then: it hits the problem right at its root.
He would have been a hero if people's lives had been in danger, but here's it's "only" about avoiding taxes, an area that's morally less black and white to most.
We're all guilty of something... it's nearly impossible to respect all the rules all of the time. Does everybody who breaks rules need to be reported to the proper authorities? I remember when in Germany I backed my car into a one-way street and an older German told me to wait while he called a nearby cop car... such a thing would have been unthinkable in my own country but to him it was probably "his duty".
Some people say he stole data from the bank. Well, the bank has just as much data as it had before. Do not forget, the banks mostly knowingly helped their customers in committing crimes. And they did this out of greed.
The thieves are those people who placed their money in Swiss bank accounts to avoid paying taxes - but who profited from other people paying taxes.
After the information landed at the German Tax Offices, thousands of people have "corrected" their income tax declarations and the German States will collect hundreds of millions of additonal Euros. The outlay for buying the data was in the one figure million Euro ballpark. Good return on investment.
If you are quick enough and "correct" your income tax return in Germany, there is no penalty for you, except that you have to pay the taxes. If the Tax Office finds the error before you "correct" it, then you will pay ay hefty fine too. And you may lose your job. Like the boss of Deutsche Post. Nobody misses him. He has also left the country. Shame on him.
It depends, on the fairness of the country's tax system, AND let's be honest about it, also on the guy's own true motives. Civism, or venality for a reward?
In the principle, taxes were one of the means designed by the theorician of Capitalism to avoid or reduce the expectable injustices which the system "is very likely to create", namely the phenomenon of wealth concentration. Commonly known today in our dramatically unregulated neocapitalistic times as "the rich keep getting richer, and the poor poorer".
A well-designed system in a spirit of fairness NEEDS to be enforced. I'd say, even more so doday after GWB's famous -and infamous- "tax cuts to the rich". A regular Robin Hood in reverse, that guy!
Fair solidarity IS a core moral principle of human societies.
This is why Kent's position is only correct if (or when) the System is NOT well designed. Because, these days, the first thieves are the giant financial conglomerates shaping the whole workings of the world to fit them, solely aimed at making THEM more rich and powerful.
Then again, these very "thieves" are the ones doing their rather efficient best to shape the "legalization" to their advantage. And the actual application of it even more so.
Mammon IS Master of the World today. Fact.
"(perhaps not everyone in the audience knows me for my special liking for saying things in an indirect way)" Uhm... Beep, what exactly do you mean by that??? ;-)
"it hits the problem right at its root" Otherwise phrased, it shoots it in the foot? ;-)
"Does everybody who breaks rules need to be reported to the proper authorities?" Jan, Do you know the principle of lynching by lapidation? No single stone kills. It's their number that's mercilessly lethal. In fact, that's probably the aim: to make the religion-sanctioned execution performed "by the Community", while individuals remain TECHNICALLY innocent. I'm sure the hypocritical fallacy of it all is obvious to you intelligent people. Dilution of responsibility is sickening, criminal cowardice. Same with "a little harmless gossip". (Boycott celebrity gossip magazines!!!) It's the same with tax evasion. No one person will make the State bankrupt, not even Bill Gates. But if it's a mass phenomenon, a tidal wave of all those who CONCENTRATE the wealth... This is my position on when breaking "da rules" is evil. The CONSEQUENCES. Always. Not the theoretical morality of it, such as premarital sex "before God okayed it". :-P
It's a bit like looting after a natural disaster. Individually, most people can be understood and excused. They're thirsty and hungry. Even random goods can be bartered later on, "just grab anything for now." But together, they create a devastating state of anarchy where anything can and does happen. Random murders, for instance. Or that Haitian kid I saw on TV, who queued for hours to receive his two packs of proteinated biscuits, and moments later a big guy stole them from him, just like that, in front of everyone. But no-one would move. Not for a kid they don't know (probably alone in the world), not at the risk of "losing my place in the line". These packs are typically later found in shops, sold on the Black Market.
The American intervention after the quake has been criticized, but their prioritizing of "first ensuring order" is quite understandable.
One major lesson I have learned from growing up in the Lebanese Civil War, is that war equals anarchy. No more State or police, people know there aren't any sanctions to be feared anymore. This is when their true nature reveals itself, boosted by a sense of absolute (libertarian?) freedom that no religious belief in "the Beyond" seems to temper.
This is when you see who is amazingly generous and noble, and who is utterly despicable. I've seen it all. People spontaneously risking their lives under the shells just to bring a wounded total stranger to a hospital. Gratuitous solidarity. War, and/or unregulated anarchy, is very convenient for revealing people's true nature, if you're God's nominated judge taking notes. But it's a lot less helpful in protecting the innocent.
You may also feel that breaking the speed limit is harmless, as long as "nobody got hurt". But every driving infraction IS one of those which one day can be responsible for a fatal crash. Civic sense is an attitude. I never, ever, throw a used tissue paper on the street, even though there are no laws about littering in Lebanon. I just keep them in a dedicated pocket until I find a trash bin. Which contents will likely end up in one of the State-(Un)Managed garbage dumps directly in the sea. :-/
I just hope they treat every tax cheater fairly. This means, be severe in direct proportion with the importance of the evasion. And taxt the richest most. People who barely get paid enough by those capitalist moguls to sustain their family's bare essentials should pay no taxes at all, AND have social security and health coverage from the State. It's only fair. In the name of fundamental Human Rights, no System should favor automatic wealth concentration.
- Tax evaders shamelessly profit from the taxes that OTHERS are paying.
- The bank didn't "get robbed" of a sigle cyber-bit of data they don't still have. Claiming "intellectual ownership/copyright" on information that's criminal evidence is just chutzpah from these farshtunken gonifs. Out of greed.
If there are no officially established international conventions making it legally a crime, doesn't mean it's not a crime. Example: murdering someone in international waters, outside any State's legal jurisdiction.
I´ll let at least two of the "persons" out of their bottles, so that they can spread their coat over you:
a) the US with trillions of debts (imagine that figure, astronomers handle such quantities in AE or even lightyears, just to make the figure small, and bewilder people´s imagination,
b) Germany with billions of debts.
c)......is z) the end?
And counting counting counting. The money keeps flowing in, debts are just figures.
And tax is a law.
Who makes the laws?
And Germans are obeying people. They stick to rules just because it´s law and order, rather than showing a good shot of common sense. (Well they do, it´s then called illicit work / moonlighting).
It´s a problem of societies, it seems to me. We are being cared for by the state, yes, but only to a well-balanced degree which keeps the system going. The rest won´t make it to the end of the rotten pipeline through which all tax money flows.
Of course is it bad manners to hide money from the taxman, but this is the wrong perspective.
It´s the rules of taxes and the way how they´re imposed on anything that´s got to do with money.
... that´s bad manners, in the first place.
So much tax money is thrown out of the window and pays for unnecessary affairs.
The tax money just keeps rolling in.
Where´s the financial report (balance sheet, income statement, statement of cash flow)? The state is a system that SERVES its citizens. Not one that tells us how much debts per capita we all have.
No, not "we", but the system which ought to serve us.
Haha, Pascal, I´ve left some space for you. I´ve reached my limit of words.
:-))
Still I´m glad to live in a near civilised world ;-)
Interesting that the person that asked the question is keeping noticabilly quite on this. Do I sence some possible guilt here EO? Have you been dressing and acting like an American again? :-)
"A massive a-hole." Caution is advised, Dave: if massive enough, it may turn into a Black Hole. B-holes are even MORE dangerous than the A class ones!
"It´s the rules of taxes and the way how they´re imposed on anything that´s got to do with money. ... that´s bad manners, in the first place." You don't say! I remember when I went to study in France, the first time I checked my electricity bill: "-VAT -local taxes - VAT on local taxes" Taxing taxes? Now, I grew up in Lebanon, and I've seen some pretty brazen shit, but right there I was shocked!
And yes, a system where the State is not held carefully accountable for the tax money it WASTES is gravely flawed. I'm sure Kent will agree with me there. :-( Dubya's impunity in that regard overshoots shameful straight into "obscene". Correction: "HARDCORE S/M obscene".
It's just that when you say "this is the wrong perspective", I have to disagree with you. The IS no "wrong perspective", only incomplete ones. The deeper and vaster your analysis, the wiser. I try to always look at ALL facets of a problem.
But, out of mercy for you people, I don't always discuss them all!!! :-)
Yeah, yeah, I *know* I'm a regular fucking saint. No need to thank me. ;-)
Pascal, just want to pick up on what you said about revealing true character - there's some of us who believe that's the whole point of why we're here on this earth. And while it's true that it's much easier to see true character during times of anarchy, times of peace can be a real test too - who pays their taxes even if they know they won't get caught? Who doesn't litter even though it's legal? :) Without knowing the motives of the guy who "did his civic duty", it's tough to judge him. And who knows another's motives?
I recommend also reading the comments to posts, they are often high quality.
So true: The tax system is like a massive Black Hole. A B-hole so to speak.
All Germans get a distinct Tax Number, I think they get it as a foetus when pregnancy is confirmed, and isn't deleted when they die! The supermassive B-hole senses there might be something to inherit (suck-in-herit).
Cows from Switzerland are famous for their high quality milk. I buy expensive creme, made by Swiss diaries from Swiss cows.
I don't litter no matter who is watching or not. I wouldn't rape anyone even if I were 100% positive I would never be caught.
Paying taxes is not an ethical imperative. Is it wrong to hide money from a thief? What if the thief wears the silly hat of government and promises to only do "good things" with your property once he has taken it from you under threat of violence?
If you take that which belongs to another person against his will, using the threat of violence, it is "theft" no matter who you are or what excuse you use. Making an act "legal" will never change its true nature. Not even if you manage to convince the majority that you have the authority to do what you have authorized yourself to do.
Pay taxes if you want, or if you can't avoid it, but don't judge those who find ways to keep some of their own property away from the thieves.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, as far as the US government goes, they don't need any of the money they steal as "taxes". They print, inflate, or electronically create all the operating capital they need. I suspect it may be the same in all other countries, since they all use fiat money now, rather than real money based upon gold or silver.
The taxation (especially the income tax) is actually just a means of social control and a way to snoop into a "taxpayer's" private affairs. It is a convenient way to get a person to testify against themselves.
I don´t know if "thief" is the right word - a thief is working obscurely, whereas in our case everything is done openly, and reinforced by threatening with penalties or imprisonment....
The tax system is a very old system imposed by superior rulers, and aristocrats, which has been refined to a very effective and convenient means of providing money. I wonder if the effectiveness of most tax-funded services couldn´t be optimized by delegating them to cost-orientated private institutions.
Don´t get me wrong people, there´s nothing to say against funding certain common concerns by financing them by an appropriate general "tax". But a century old system cannot be taken for granted just because it exists and is a well of well-being for some. We no longer have to subsidize the candles or whatever it may be that is shining in the sky (or heaven rather) on a flat earth.
A transparent system would be so much better accepted by everyone, and maybe people would even donate a few coins more for our common interest.
Not always. Some of the most blatant thefts are committed in broad daylight in full view. I have witnessed a couple of thefts where the thief (freelance; not governmental) just walked up and took something that did not belong to him, but since he didn't act guilty or furtive, no one questioned his act.
It isn't the obscurity that makes a person a thief, it is the act of taking that which belongs to others.
It is fine to want to give your money to a good cause (or one you consider "good") but it is evil to force your neighbor to hand over his money for that same cause.
David, I believe we're "down here" for a little more than that. Namely, to learn, to "grow up". Sometimes by our own effort. Sometimes driven by the hardships of life and our forced adaptation to them. And sometimes, we fail miserably. This is why I tend to seriously believe in some form of reincarnation. No way God would give us only ONE chance at learning.
"Without knowing the motives of the guy who "did his civic duty", it's tough to judge him. And who knows another's motives?" Precisely what I meant. As an answer to Eolake's initial question. :-) Even IF the guy received a money reward, this wasn't necessarily his motivation. Such acts have a practical cost when they turn your whole life around...
Beep, Getting a little deeply esoteric, aintcha? ;-) BTW, "Holy Cow" is the basis of Hinduism. The basis of Islam is "One God, and Muhammad is his prophet." (No kidding. You state this in an official manner, and you're a Muslim until the End of Time.) Not sure how this is still related to Switzerland. Maybe if I say instead "until the cuckoo clock forever stops cuckooing"?
Kent, Interesting argument, but what about the "concentration of wealth" problem? An intrinsic unjust flaw of Capitalism, if left unchecked. The Boss can always exploit the workers, use them to make huge profits, and pay them peanuts. As is happening actually! Under the convenient excuse of "worldwide competitiveness".
Monsieur Beep! aptly observed... "I don´t know if "thief" is the right word - a thief is working obscurely, whereas in our case everything is done openly" Fair point. This is no more thievery, it's Feudalism. A thief is forced to be sneaky, crafty, discreet, because what he does goes against the established Law. In a way, that's still more honest, is what Kent is saying. :-)
"I wonder if the effectiveness of most tax-funded services couldn´t be optimized by delegating them to cost-orientated private institutions." Tread carefully there, man. The instant you convert the original goal of a public service into a private cash-making machine, lots of people will suffer. Their sole crime being a job that pays peanuts. Not to mention a whole Society that pretty much forces you to live on credit, hence in debt. Leaving people to manage by themselves entirely leads to a nightmarish "law of the Jungle". Minus the invincible hero savior. In many parts of the Third World, militias more or less official pretty much act this way. In Turkmenistan (or is it Uzbekistan?), children are taken from the schools and rounded BY THE POLICE, at the time of the cotton harvest, to work in the fields. And, while at it, they're paid much less than an adult's salary. The cotton is then woven in China. Remember this next time you buy a "wonderfully cheap, quality T-shirt"...
Scene seen a McDonald's: A kid opens up his Happy Meal, casually tosses the toy to the ground, and starts eating his burger. His mom scolds him: "Young man, pick up that toy and play with it right now. There's a poor child in China who worked hard so that you'd have that toy!"
[We'll be right back after these words from our sponsor.]
I disagree with people like Kent (not to be mistaken with Hokuto no Ken) when they assert that "no System" is the best System. I just believe that the current one is definitely not "the least bad System" either. In the "civilized" West, I mean! But only by knowing how to pick our fights can our efforts be focused on making the useful changes that ARE needed. Look at the Orange Revolution in Ukraine. Its leading figures bickered constantly among themselves, and apparently it was about hogging the cash benefits of their corruption. As a result, the ousted pro-Russian President has just been democratically re-elected! Talk about wasted time and efforts. Back to the drawing board for Ukraine. ):-P And our own Cedar Revolution, in Lebanon, resulted only in corruption, inner division and kowtowing to the interests of foreign superpowers, worse than ever! So, clearly, adequate efforts were NOT properly focused.
"A transparent system would be so much better accepted by everyone, and maybe people would even donate a few coins more for our common interest." Yeah... provided you can find a charity that's trustworthy and not corrupt. As long as humans will be in charge of things, there WILL be room for tyranny and/or corruption. Methinks the System to prevent that is yet to be invented. So far, the Enlightened Tyrant seems to be what worked best. Otherwise phrased: you need to get lucky with your tyrants!!!
Kent McManigal redefined... "Not always. Some of the most blatant thefts are committed in broad daylight in full view." When murders fit that definition of yours, they're called "heroic patriotism", private! 'Teeen-HUT! :-(
"I have witnessed a couple of thefts where the thief (freelance; not governmental) just walked up and took something that did not belong to him, but since he didn't act guilty or furtive, no one questioned his act." Clever. Thanks for the tip. :-) Actually, MANY burglaries succeeded by simply being disguised as a moving company at work.
"It isn't the obscurity that makes a person a thief, it is the act of taking that which belongs to others." True. Obscurity makes the NINJA. ;-)
BTW, Kent, isn't also evil if your neighbor is loaded with money simplybecause he's the CEO of the Company Store exploiting a whole County?... Under the pretense of forming us -while actually we were too busy and chronically exhausted to study or learn anything-, during my last University Hospital internship we had a workload of precisely 100 hours per week. Dividing our monthly pay by that figure, we were retributed at ¢75/hour. Within 6 months, my health was so affected, that I'm still not fully recovered. I think my sleep patterns will never return to normal. But this is pretty much an unregulated, "libertarian" System. Med Schools run the hospitals. Either you let yourself be exploited, or you don't graduate.
And I'm sure such examples are plenty.
What we DO need, is an organized State system, but working in full transparency, with all the management data available to everybody, AND politicians actually accountable for their acts, and not by mere failure at the next elections.
It IS possible. In theory. But who WILL establish such a System? The current Politicians, fattened by the lobbies? FAT chance...
Also, and finally, the People's will isn't the perfect solution either. Remember populism, racism, sectarianism, xenophobia... The Perfect System should be a mix of complete transparency of Society's management, and carefully thought education. First step in THAT: getting rid of religion! The more the religion, the less the perspective on the world for fanatic narrow minds.
[Roll credits. See you next week, same P-04-time, same great P-04-channel.]
A freelance thief... Hehe, hope he's got health insurance and a pension scheme ahahah (;-))
Yeah that's right: the more openly you commit a crime the less people will notice or even care.
Two more among the laid-offs: Sherlock Holmes and Watson, his assistant: crimes are done openly, and monitored on CCTV. No more need for skilled investigations...
"...what about the 'concentration of wealth' problem?"
Wealth is not a pie that if your piece is larger, mine is automatically smaller. This pie can grow or it can shrink. As long as no theft, coercion, or fraud was used in gaining wealth, your wealth does not hurt me in the least. My jealousy/envy of your wealth is my flaw, not yours.
This is not a flaw of "capitalism" but of "corporatism". The two are often confused, but are mutually exclusive. In a capitalistic society if you feel your boss is exploiting you, you can quit and open your own business to compete with your former boss. In a corporatistic society regulations and red tape (imposed by the political influence of the big corporations) make entry into the market difficult, expensive, and less profitable. Unless you manage to become a part of the corrupt system yourself. Corporations, because they benefit from the theft and coercion committed on their behalf by government are a demonstration of the reason (one reason anyway) why government is a bad idea.
"...When murders fit that definition of yours, they're called 'heroic patriotism', private!"
Absolutely right, and they are just as evil as freelance murders. No ethical difference at all.
"...Med Schools run the hospitals. Either you let yourself be exploited, or you don't graduate."
Because government regulates the medical profession. You can't apprentice with whoever you choose to get just the training necessary for what you would like to specialize in and then hang your shingle and start treating patients. Instead, there is a whole governmentally mandated system in place that you don't even notice since it is "the way it has always been"... at least in your experience.
And as to the example of the CCTV cameras- the attacks are recorded, but frequently ignored. Holmes (who had no respect for "the law") would still be needed if his methods were not illegal now in GB.
29 comments:
Interesting question. I guess if I had enough money to warrant hiding it in a Swiss account, my answer might be different. But, I don't and therefore I think he be a good citizen.
As a citizen of any country that collects taxes (is there any that don't?) to support the society of that country, I feel that everyone has a responsibilty to pay their fair share. If they don't, then the burrden falls to the rest of us.
I'd say a little of both.
Fully both. Being one does not preclude being the other. In fact, it probably makes it easier.
If you try to hide money from a mugger and your "friend" says "He's got more in his shoe!" then the "friend" has enabled more theft. Taxation is simply theft that is "legalized" by the thieves themselves.
Maybe he was planted there by the U.S. Treasury Dept.
I wrote the following article in/on my blog a while ago:
(perhaps not everyone in the audience knows me for my special liking for saying things in an indirect way).
"The Person.
You have a very regular and secure monthly income. You can even fix the amount of your income without too many problems. Everybody would wish themselves to be in a similar situation.
Even so you're in DEBTS, and your continuing to make more and more debts.
WHO ARE YOU?????
are you a reliable, trustworthy person???
What ratings do you have????"
It's a bit off-topic, but then: it hits the problem right at its root.
He would have been a hero if people's lives had been in danger, but here's it's "only" about avoiding taxes, an area that's morally less black and white to most.
We're all guilty of something... it's nearly impossible to respect all the rules all of the time. Does everybody who breaks rules need to be reported to the proper authorities? I remember when in Germany I backed my car into a one-way street and an older German told me to wait while he called a nearby cop car... such a thing would have been unthinkable in my own country but to him it was probably "his duty".
To me he is a modern Robin Hood.
Some people say he stole data from the bank. Well, the bank has just as much data as it had before. Do not forget, the banks mostly knowingly helped their customers in committing crimes. And they did this out of greed.
The thieves are those people who placed their money in Swiss bank accounts to avoid paying taxes - but who profited from other people paying taxes.
After the information landed at the German Tax Offices, thousands of people have "corrected" their income tax declarations and the German States will collect hundreds of millions of additonal Euros. The outlay for buying the data was in the one figure million Euro ballpark. Good return on investment.
If you are quick enough and "correct" your income tax return in Germany, there is no penalty for you, except that you have to pay the taxes. If the Tax Office finds the error before you "correct" it, then you will pay ay hefty fine too. And you may lose your job. Like the boss of Deutsche Post. Nobody misses him. He has also left the country. Shame on him.
Christer
It depends, on the fairness of the country's tax system, AND let's be honest about it, also on the guy's own true motives. Civism, or venality for a reward?
In the principle, taxes were one of the means designed by the theorician of Capitalism to avoid or reduce the expectable injustices which the system "is very likely to create", namely the phenomenon of wealth concentration. Commonly known today in our dramatically unregulated neocapitalistic times as "the rich keep getting richer, and the poor poorer".
A well-designed system in a spirit of fairness NEEDS to be enforced. I'd say, even more so doday after GWB's famous -and infamous- "tax cuts to the rich". A regular Robin Hood in reverse, that guy!
Fair solidarity IS a core moral principle of human societies.
This is why Kent's position is only correct if (or when) the System is NOT well designed.
Because, these days, the first thieves are the giant financial conglomerates shaping the whole workings of the world to fit them, solely aimed at making THEM more rich and powerful.
Then again, these very "thieves" are the ones doing their rather efficient best to shape the "legalization" to their advantage. And the actual application of it even more so.
Mammon IS Master of the World today. Fact.
"(perhaps not everyone in the audience knows me for my special liking for saying things in an indirect way)"
Uhm... Beep, what exactly do you mean by that???
;-)
"it hits the problem right at its root"
Otherwise phrased, it shoots it in the foot?
;-)
"Does everybody who breaks rules need to be reported to the proper authorities?"
Jan,
Do you know the principle of lynching by lapidation? No single stone kills. It's their number that's mercilessly lethal. In fact, that's probably the aim: to make the religion-sanctioned execution performed "by the Community", while individuals remain TECHNICALLY innocent.
I'm sure the hypocritical fallacy of it all is obvious to you intelligent people. Dilution of responsibility is sickening, criminal cowardice. Same with "a little harmless gossip". (Boycott celebrity gossip magazines!!!)
It's the same with tax evasion. No one person will make the State bankrupt, not even Bill Gates. But if it's a mass phenomenon, a tidal wave of all those who CONCENTRATE the wealth...
This is my position on when breaking "da rules" is evil. The CONSEQUENCES. Always. Not the theoretical morality of it, such as premarital sex "before God okayed it". :-P
It's a bit like looting after a natural disaster. Individually, most people can be understood and excused. They're thirsty and hungry. Even random goods can be bartered later on, "just grab anything for now." But together, they create a devastating state of anarchy where anything can and does happen. Random murders, for instance. Or that Haitian kid I saw on TV, who queued for hours to receive his two packs of proteinated biscuits, and moments later a big guy stole them from him, just like that, in front of everyone. But no-one would move. Not for a kid they don't know (probably alone in the world), not at the risk of "losing my place in the line". These packs are typically later found in shops, sold on the Black Market.
The American intervention after the quake has been criticized, but their prioritizing of "first ensuring order" is quite understandable.
One major lesson I have learned from growing up in the Lebanese Civil War, is that war equals anarchy. No more State or police, people know there aren't any sanctions to be feared anymore. This is when their true nature reveals itself, boosted by a sense of absolute (libertarian?) freedom that no religious belief in "the Beyond" seems to temper.
This is when you see who is amazingly generous and noble, and who is utterly despicable. I've seen it all. People spontaneously risking their lives under the shells just to bring a wounded total stranger to a hospital. Gratuitous solidarity.
War, and/or unregulated anarchy, is very convenient for revealing people's true nature, if you're God's nominated judge taking notes. But it's a lot less helpful in protecting the innocent.
You may also feel that breaking the speed limit is harmless, as long as "nobody got hurt". But every driving infraction IS one of those which one day can be responsible for a fatal crash. Civic sense is an attitude. I never, ever, throw a used tissue paper on the street, even though there are no laws about littering in Lebanon. I just keep them in a dedicated pocket until I find a trash bin.
Which contents will likely end up in one of the State-(Un)Managed garbage dumps directly in the sea. :-/
I just hope they treat every tax cheater fairly. This means, be severe in direct proportion with the importance of the evasion. And taxt the richest most. People who barely get paid enough by those capitalist moguls to sustain their family's bare essentials should pay no taxes at all, AND have social security and health coverage from the State. It's only fair. In the name of fundamental Human Rights, no System should favor automatic wealth concentration.
Christer makes some solid points:
- Tax evaders shamelessly profit from the taxes that OTHERS are paying.
- The bank didn't "get robbed" of a sigle cyber-bit of data they don't still have. Claiming "intellectual ownership/copyright" on information that's criminal evidence is just chutzpah from these farshtunken gonifs. Out of greed.
If there are no officially established international conventions making it legally a crime, doesn't mean it's not a crime. Example: murdering someone in international waters, outside any State's legal jurisdiction.
Hello Pascal,
I´ll let at least two of the "persons" out of their bottles, so that they can spread their coat over you:
a) the US with trillions of debts (imagine that figure, astronomers handle such quantities in AE or even lightyears, just to make the figure small, and bewilder people´s imagination,
b) Germany with billions of debts.
c)......is z) the end?
And counting counting counting. The money keeps flowing in, debts are just figures.
And tax is a law.
Who makes the laws?
And Germans are obeying people. They stick to rules just because it´s law and order, rather than showing a good shot of common sense. (Well they do, it´s then called illicit work / moonlighting).
It´s a problem of societies, it seems to me.
We are being cared for by the state, yes, but only to a well-balanced degree which keeps the system going. The rest won´t make it to the end of the rotten pipeline through which all tax money flows.
Of course is it bad manners to hide money from the taxman, but this is the wrong perspective.
It´s the rules of taxes and the way how they´re imposed on anything that´s got to do with money.
... that´s bad manners, in the first place.
So much tax money is thrown out of the window and pays for unnecessary affairs.
The tax money just keeps rolling in.
Where´s the financial report (balance sheet, income statement, statement of cash flow)?
The state is a system that SERVES its citizens. Not one that tells us how much debts per capita we all have.
No, not "we", but the system which ought to serve us.
Haha, Pascal, I´ve left some space for you. I´ve reached my limit of words.
:-))
Still I´m glad to live in a near civilised world ;-)
A massive a-hole.
Interesting that the person that asked the question is keeping noticabilly quite on this. Do I sence some possible guilt here EO? Have you been dressing and acting like an American again? :-)
"A massive a-hole."
Caution is advised, Dave: if massive enough, it may turn into a Black Hole. B-holes are even MORE dangerous than the A class ones!
"It´s the rules of taxes and the way how they´re imposed on anything that´s got to do with money.
... that´s bad manners, in the first place."
You don't say!
I remember when I went to study in France, the first time I checked my electricity bill:
"-VAT
-local taxes
- VAT on local taxes"
Taxing taxes? Now, I grew up in Lebanon, and I've seen some pretty brazen shit, but right there I was shocked!
And yes, a system where the State is not held carefully accountable for the tax money it WASTES is gravely flawed. I'm sure Kent will agree with me there. :-(
Dubya's impunity in that regard overshoots shameful straight into "obscene". Correction: "HARDCORE S/M obscene".
It's just that when you say "this is the wrong perspective", I have to disagree with you. The IS no "wrong perspective", only incomplete ones. The deeper and vaster your analysis, the wiser. I try to always look at ALL facets of a problem.
But, out of mercy for you people, I don't always discuss them all!!!
:-)
Yeah, yeah, I *know* I'm a regular fucking saint. No need to thank me. ;-)
HEY! Why do people always post while I'm writing a comment?
You guys are ruining my attempts at a holistic perspective, you know.
And what a massive a holistic it would be...
;-)
More posts than you can shake a holy stick at.
P.S.: Tommy, remember that Eolake IS NOT living in Switzerland. ;-)
Pascal, just want to pick up on what you said about revealing true character - there's some of us who believe that's the whole point of why we're here on this earth.
And while it's true that it's much easier to see true character during times of anarchy, times of peace can be a real test too - who pays their taxes even if they know they won't get caught? Who doesn't litter even though it's legal? :)
Without knowing the motives of the guy who "did his civic duty", it's tough to judge him. And who knows another's motives?
As eolake states in the header of the blog:
I recommend also reading the comments to posts, they are often high quality.
So true:
The tax system is like a massive Black Hole. A B-hole so to speak.
All Germans get a distinct Tax Number, I think they get it as a foetus when pregnancy is confirmed, and isn't deleted when they die! The supermassive B-hole senses there might be something to inherit (suck-in-herit).
Cows from Switzerland are famous for their high quality milk. I buy expensive creme, made by Swiss diaries from Swiss cows.
Mooho!
Comments.
Quality.
Premium.
Holy Cow.
I don't litter no matter who is watching or not. I wouldn't rape anyone even if I were 100% positive I would never be caught.
Paying taxes is not an ethical imperative. Is it wrong to hide money from a thief? What if the thief wears the silly hat of government and promises to only do "good things" with your property once he has taken it from you under threat of violence?
If you take that which belongs to another person against his will, using the threat of violence, it is "theft" no matter who you are or what excuse you use. Making an act "legal" will never change its true nature. Not even if you manage to convince the majority that you have the authority to do what you have authorized yourself to do.
Pay taxes if you want, or if you can't avoid it, but don't judge those who find ways to keep some of their own property away from the thieves.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, as far as the US government goes, they don't need any of the money they steal as "taxes". They print, inflate, or electronically create all the operating capital they need. I suspect it may be the same in all other countries, since they all use fiat money now, rather than real money based upon gold or silver.
The taxation (especially the income tax) is actually just a means of social control and a way to snoop into a "taxpayer's" private affairs. It is a convenient way to get a person to testify against themselves.
I don´t know if "thief" is the right word - a thief is working obscurely, whereas in our case everything is done openly, and reinforced by threatening with penalties or imprisonment....
The tax system is a very old system imposed by superior rulers, and aristocrats, which has been refined to a very effective and convenient means of providing money.
I wonder if the effectiveness of most tax-funded services couldn´t be optimized by delegating them to cost-orientated private institutions.
Don´t get me wrong people, there´s nothing to say against funding certain common concerns by financing them by an appropriate general "tax".
But a century old system cannot be taken for granted just because it exists and is a well of well-being for some.
We no longer have to subsidize the candles or whatever it may be that is shining in the sky (or heaven rather) on a flat earth.
A transparent system would be so much better accepted by everyone, and maybe people would even donate a few coins more for our common interest.
"...a thief is working obscurely..."
Not always. Some of the most blatant thefts are committed in broad daylight in full view. I have witnessed a couple of thefts where the thief (freelance; not governmental) just walked up and took something that did not belong to him, but since he didn't act guilty or furtive, no one questioned his act.
It isn't the obscurity that makes a person a thief, it is the act of taking that which belongs to others.
It is fine to want to give your money to a good cause (or one you consider "good") but it is evil to force your neighbor to hand over his money for that same cause.
David,
I believe we're "down here" for a little more than that. Namely, to learn, to "grow up".
Sometimes by our own effort. Sometimes driven by the hardships of life and our forced adaptation to them.
And sometimes, we fail miserably. This is why I tend to seriously believe in some form of reincarnation. No way God would give us only ONE chance at learning.
"Without knowing the motives of the guy who "did his civic duty", it's tough to judge him. And who knows another's motives?"
Precisely what I meant. As an answer to Eolake's initial question. :-)
Even IF the guy received a money reward, this wasn't necessarily his motivation. Such acts have a practical cost when they turn your whole life around...
Beep,
Getting a little deeply esoteric, aintcha? ;-)
BTW, "Holy Cow" is the basis of Hinduism.
The basis of Islam is "One God, and Muhammad is his prophet."
(No kidding. You state this in an official manner, and you're a Muslim until the End of Time.)
Not sure how this is still related to Switzerland. Maybe if I say instead "until the cuckoo clock forever stops cuckooing"?
Kent,
Interesting argument, but what about the "concentration of wealth" problem? An intrinsic unjust flaw of Capitalism, if left unchecked. The Boss can always exploit the workers, use them to make huge profits, and pay them peanuts. As is happening actually! Under the convenient excuse of "worldwide competitiveness".
Monsieur Beep! aptly observed...
"I don´t know if "thief" is the right word - a thief is working obscurely, whereas in our case everything is done openly"
Fair point. This is no more thievery, it's Feudalism.
A thief is forced to be sneaky, crafty, discreet, because what he does goes against the established Law.
In a way, that's still more honest, is what Kent is saying. :-)
"I wonder if the effectiveness of most tax-funded services couldn´t be optimized by delegating them to cost-orientated private institutions."
Tread carefully there, man. The instant you convert the original goal of a public service into a private cash-making machine, lots of people will suffer. Their sole crime being a job that pays peanuts.
Not to mention a whole Society that pretty much forces you to live on credit, hence in debt.
Leaving people to manage by themselves entirely leads to a nightmarish "law of the Jungle". Minus the invincible hero savior. In many parts of the Third World, militias more or less official pretty much act this way. In Turkmenistan (or is it Uzbekistan?), children are taken from the schools and rounded BY THE POLICE, at the time of the cotton harvest, to work in the fields. And, while at it, they're paid much less than an adult's salary. The cotton is then woven in China. Remember this next time you buy a "wonderfully cheap, quality T-shirt"...
Scene seen a McDonald's:
A kid opens up his Happy Meal, casually tosses the toy to the ground, and starts eating his burger. His mom scolds him:
"Young man, pick up that toy and play with it right now. There's a poor child in China who worked hard so that you'd have that toy!"
[We'll be right back after these words from our sponsor.]
[We now return to the Transformers]
I disagree with people like Kent (not to be mistaken with Hokuto no Ken) when they assert that "no System" is the best System. I just believe that the current one is definitely not "the least bad System" either. In the "civilized" West, I mean!
But only by knowing how to pick our fights can our efforts be focused on making the useful changes that ARE needed.
Look at the Orange Revolution in Ukraine. Its leading figures bickered constantly among themselves, and apparently it was about hogging the cash benefits of their corruption. As a result, the ousted pro-Russian President has just been democratically re-elected!
Talk about wasted time and efforts. Back to the drawing board for Ukraine. ):-P
And our own Cedar Revolution, in Lebanon, resulted only in corruption, inner division and kowtowing to the interests of foreign superpowers, worse than ever!
So, clearly, adequate efforts were NOT properly focused.
"A transparent system would be so much better accepted by everyone, and maybe people would even donate a few coins more for our common interest."
Yeah... provided you can find a charity that's trustworthy and not corrupt.
As long as humans will be in charge of things, there WILL be room for tyranny and/or corruption.
Methinks the System to prevent that is yet to be invented.
So far, the Enlightened Tyrant seems to be what worked best. Otherwise phrased: you need to get lucky with your tyrants!!!
Kent McManigal redefined...
"Not always. Some of the most blatant thefts are committed in broad daylight in full view."
When murders fit that definition of yours, they're called "heroic patriotism", private! 'Teeen-HUT! :-(
"I have witnessed a couple of thefts where the thief (freelance; not governmental) just walked up and took something that did not belong to him, but since he didn't act guilty or furtive, no one questioned his act."
Clever. Thanks for the tip. :-)
Actually, MANY burglaries succeeded by simply being disguised as a moving company at work.
"It isn't the obscurity that makes a person a thief, it is the act of taking that which belongs to others."
True. Obscurity makes the NINJA. ;-)
BTW, Kent, isn't also evil if your neighbor is loaded with money simplybecause he's the CEO of the Company Store exploiting a whole County?...
Under the pretense of forming us -while actually we were too busy and chronically exhausted to study or learn anything-, during my last University Hospital internship we had a workload of precisely 100 hours per week. Dividing our monthly pay by that figure, we were retributed at ¢75/hour. Within 6 months, my health was so affected, that I'm still not fully recovered. I think my sleep patterns will never return to normal.
But this is pretty much an unregulated, "libertarian" System.
Med Schools run the hospitals. Either you let yourself be exploited, or you don't graduate.
And I'm sure such examples are plenty.
What we DO need, is an organized State system, but working in full transparency, with all the management data available to everybody, AND politicians actually accountable for their acts, and not by mere failure at the next elections.
It IS possible. In theory. But who WILL establish such a System? The current Politicians, fattened by the lobbies? FAT chance...
Also, and finally, the People's will isn't the perfect solution either. Remember populism, racism, sectarianism, xenophobia...
The Perfect System should be a mix of complete transparency of Society's management, and carefully thought education. First step in THAT: getting rid of religion! The more the religion, the less the perspective on the world for fanatic narrow minds.
[Roll credits. See you next week, same P-04-time, same great P-04-channel.]
A freelance thief...
Hehe, hope he's got health insurance and a pension scheme ahahah (;-))
Yeah that's right: the more openly you commit a crime the less people will notice or even care.
Two more among the laid-offs:
Sherlock Holmes and Watson, his assistant: crimes are done openly, and monitored on CCTV.
No more need for skilled investigations...
(;-0)
"...what about the 'concentration of wealth' problem?"
Wealth is not a pie that if your piece is larger, mine is automatically smaller. This pie can grow or it can shrink. As long as no theft, coercion, or fraud was used in gaining wealth, your wealth does not hurt me in the least. My jealousy/envy of your wealth is my flaw, not yours.
This is not a flaw of "capitalism" but of "corporatism". The two are often confused, but are mutually exclusive. In a capitalistic society if you feel your boss is exploiting you, you can quit and open your own business to compete with your former boss. In a corporatistic society regulations and red tape (imposed by the political influence of the big corporations) make entry into the market difficult, expensive, and less profitable. Unless you manage to become a part of the corrupt system yourself. Corporations, because they benefit from the theft and coercion committed on their behalf by government are a demonstration of the reason (one reason anyway) why government is a bad idea.
"...When murders fit that definition of yours, they're called 'heroic patriotism', private!"
Absolutely right, and they are just as evil as freelance murders. No ethical difference at all.
"...Med Schools run the hospitals. Either you let yourself be exploited, or you don't graduate."
Because government regulates the medical profession. You can't apprentice with whoever you choose to get just the training necessary for what you would like to specialize in and then hang your shingle and start treating patients. Instead, there is a whole governmentally mandated system in place that you don't even notice since it is "the way it has always been"... at least in your experience.
And as to the example of the CCTV cameras- the attacks are recorded, but frequently ignored. Holmes (who had no respect for "the law") would still be needed if his methods were not illegal now in GB.
Sherlock Holmes? What, you mean something like this? :-)
That's something I'd like to see.
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