Thursday, September 03, 2009

Eye tracking issues and learning

TC Girl told me about her son, who used to have a lot of trouble learning to read, and she introduced me to some interesting knowledge I never heard of before. She said her son early on had trouble learning to read, and she said: "I found out that he had a vision problem that could not be detected w/a regular eye exam."
I asked what those might be, I couldn't imagine. And she wrote me an interesting answer:

Many things, really: there is the "teaming" of the eyes; the synchronicity... how they move while reading; the movement on the line of words from left to right; the jumping from the end of one word to the beginning of the next and is called "tracking". If the eye muscles (and brain) have not been "trained" to do this, properly, a eye "overshoots" and then has to go back to find the proper placement; ALL, of course in split-second timing but... imagine having to do this over and over, word for word, sentence after sentence. It "exhausts" the eyes. So... there is that.

Then... there is the ability of the eye to focus, quickly, and then to be able to "retrain" on something several feet out, and then refocusing back to the original spot. If the eye/brain coordination is not there, this will also be a struggle. Now, think of being in the classroom having to copy stuff off of the board. A LOT of struggle if there is a delay in that re-focusing.

Anyhew... so... there is an initial exam that costs $400 (here, anyway) where they do all kinds of tests -- some even w/a headset put on where the thing tracks the eye movements for efficiency in how it performs all these functions. It's VERY FASCINATING and... then they set up an approximate number of times that it might take to work at improving these issues. The brain is a fascinating "machine": when it is shown how to do something, properly, it will function more efficiently at doing this task, in the future. So... basically, there are MANY exercises used to improve these functions and... when the eyes/brain have been "re-trained" the person won't struggle with reading, watching t.v., etc. anymore.

All this stuff can even improve behavior of a kid. Saw it happen... with my own eyes with my son.

This eye doctor we saw believes so much in what she does (and she has 2 FULL 3-inch binders of people writing about how it has helped their situation) that she wants to go to congress, after she retires, and try to put this vision exam in place for all children before they even start grade school she feels that it would improve a child's school experience that much. And I, of course, would like to endorse/promote her cause WAY before then by having her come in to talk to ALL the schools' parents [in our district] NOW to make families aware of it.

The good news is that... even as an adult, these challenges can be addressed and corrected so... that -- to me -- was WONDERFUL to hear.

TC Girl

-----
Update:
I myself (Eolake) worked for a couple years in a small private after-hours classroom where we helped children who had trouble learning to read. We used such methods as simply teaching the *sounds* of the letters, not just the names, and then the other sounds they sometimes have. And making the pupil show concepts in clay (play-do). Personal attention and making sure one step was complete before continuing. Almost all our pupils made remarkable progress within three months.

51 comments:

neeraj said...

The process of reading is a very complex topic, and it's a dynamic process including many levels of brain abilities, from the basic physiological assumptions up to the semantic and goal-oriented levels of information processing. Regular eye exams check basically only the static physiological assumptions, as far as I know.

Those who had no problems to learn and to master the process of reading were able to train themselves in a proper way, because there was no bigger problem on any level needed. Of course, if somebody has problems and gets more or less stuck somewhere, it can be checked and supported by the training of some special dynamic eye movement patterns needed for the process of reading.

Even after many years of research the process of reading is not yet fully understood and still an ongoing research topic ...

Just one aspect: If you focus at a certain point, you see usually also more or less what's around this focussing point. This is called the "functional visual field". The bigger your functional visual field actually is, the more you see at one glance, and the less you need to jump around with eye fixations in order to see all what you need. So, from the eye movement patterns one can conclude about the functional visual field.

The extent of the functional visual field can be trained and you can learn to control it to a certain degree (just try to focus at a certain point very "hard" and then very "soft"). And it is also connected with how much relaxed you are.

Those who have trouble learning to read have often a very small functional visual field. So, they see single isolated characters, not words. And it's very hard to learn reading in this way.

Of course, it's all a bit simplified here ...

By the way, the proper functioning of the brain on many levels can be greatly supported and enhanced by craniosacral therapy.

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

"The extent of the functional visual field can be trained and you can learn to control it to a certain degree (just try to focus at a certain point very "hard" and then very "soft")."

Wow, very interesting. Another thing I never heard of.

"By the way, the proper functioning of the brain on many levels can be greatly supported and enhanced by craniosacral therapy."

Yeah? I've had some of that, it rocks. (Though it seems they have some trouble explaining just how the frig it works.)

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

Clearly, the word "dyslexia" roughly encompasses a great number of different causes, more or less subtle. Sometimes it's not the child that's a misfit, but the system that's exclusive. Perhaps quite often, even...
I was blessed with being very gifted for learning to read. I'm happy for it every day.

Nothing much to add at this point, except great thanks to TC for the very interesting insight.
The sharing my blessing is one of the topics that I feel most concerned about. Ignorance is weakness, and one that is most commonly exploited. Reading is access to knowledge, and knowledge is power.

Aniko said...

"craniosacral therapy."

I never heard of this. What is it ?

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

[I've made an update to the post at the bottom.]

Aniko, see here.

It's not clear what they actually do, it might be an energy healing thing like Reiki. And actually my own therapist a couple years ago actually seemed to mix those. But it had very nice results for me and others.

Bronislaus Janulis / Framewright said...

TC Girl,

Thanks for this; our 9 year old has difficulty reading, school in general. Much expensive testing, with out much clarity. ADHD, combined with obsessive-compulsive, and we have been pondering visual and hearing problems. The "magic" pill does not exist, just lots of different approaches.

Bron

TC [Girl] said...

Hi, Bron...

You're welcome. Actually, Bron, it could be a combination of, perhaps, this issue and...a sleep disorder. I went to college to become a Sleep Technician and one of the things learned there was that sleep deprivation in children actually makes them hyper!

So...if you have medical insurance (because the sleep studies aren't cheap; they usually cost around $3,000.00 each! Some people will need 2!) and an educated pediatrist, who is willing to refer him to be able to get a sleep study done, I would highly recommend having him get a sleep study.

Depending on your medical insurance, (check w/them, first) some cover various aspects of Vision Therapy, as well, so...HOPE that you could rule this possibility out, also.

And...my BIGGEST HOPE is...that you don't have him on Ritlin. Basically, it is a stimulant that is even stronger than cocaine!

Hope you can find some answers, Bron. It would be great to hear if you make any discoveries that improve his learning/school experience.

For everyone reading, another very important thing to realize, in the sleep department: ANY medications that you take WILL affect some part of your sleep. There are MANY symptoms that stem from sleep disorders, such as Sleep Apnea. If you have high blood pressure, for instance, you could very possibly have sleep apnea and not know it. Some people think that snoring is just a normal part of the sleep process. It is not. Snoring always indicates some sort of obstruction of the airway. So...if you or your sleeping partner snore, I would highly recommend getting a sleep study to rule things like Sleep Apnea out. Untreated Sleep Apnea can cause so much deterioration of a person's health, beginning with indicators like depression (due to sleep deprivation and don't *even* get me started w/anti-depressant drugs! Basically, ALL anti-depressants disrupt your sleep!); high blood pressure, escalating to actual heart problems; and...ultimately an early death, from either a stroke or heat attack, going unchecked.

And...obviously, the more medications a person is on, the worse your sleep will be.

The other part of Sleep Apnea that most people don't realize is that there is an extreme lack of oxygen to the brain (as well as the rest of the body, in the lack of it in the blood circulating the body) causing all sorts of cognitive issues: short-term memory loss, for one. So...also be paying attention if this is something that is happening for you.

Another symptom of Sleep Apnea in children can sometimes be exhibited by enuresis. So...if there are issues with this, I also recommend having a sleep study done.

Sorry for going on but...I am pretty "passionate" about BOTH of these subjects (eyes and sleep). I want people to *know* that there are things that help BOTH children AND adults live better lives.

Bronislaus Janulis / Framewright said...

TC Girl,

Thanks again. My daughter has been helped by Adderol XR; I understand, and have read extensively on the controversy of ADHD drugs; in her case, getting dosage right made a difference in her ability to focus at school. But there are is a price; sleep issues, eating issues. This child came with a whole series of "issues", which chicken laid which egg, I don't know. Start with a traumatic early chilhood, add substance issues, possibly, mental issues such as the obsessive-compulsive, season with some possible vision problems, ADHD, and what is leading, and you have a sweet, generous, chatterbox who can, at times, be an absolute monster. Ahh, life.

Eolake, sorry about hi-jacking your blog.

Bronislaus Janulis / Framewright said...

One other thing that helps, as Eolake has pointed out; plain vanilla "personal attention".

As Neeraj points out, the functional visual field may be part of the problem. I do know that "we" don't know, that each child is different, and will respond to different treatments. Craniosacral therapy would probably be difficult with a child who doesn't like to have her head touched, a symptom of one or the other of her "issues".

TC Girl, if you have any links to more info, I'd love to see it.

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

"sorry about hi-jacking your blog"

If that was an issue, I've have carpet-bombed Lebanon years ago. :-)

TC [Girl] said...

Bron said...
"TC Girl, if you have any links to more info, I'd love to see it."

Certainly. I apologize. I had, originally, meant to include same, when I was writing Eo on this matter.

Here is a good start for the Vision Therapy:

http://www.lifetimeeyecare.net/resume.html

and...

one of many on Sleep Disorders information:

http://www.sleepeducation.com/index.aspx

Please let me know if you need further information in either category. Best of luck, Bron.

(and...as always, thanks, Eo. :-)

Anonymous said...

Wow, Bron, who knew you'd take the easy way out and drug up your stupid kid! Way to go! That's some parenting there, you dumb shit.

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

Just a small remark:
A sleep disorder might be the cause of a problem, but it could also be its consequence, or merely a symptom. Like every other physiological process, sleep is a very complex thing and cannot be simplified. Only summarized.

"Some people think that snoring is just a normal part of the sleep process. It is not."
Not ALWAYS. A little of it can be totally insignificant. Everybody occasionally snores, in the right (or wrong) position.
Snoring needs evaluation, like everything else. Now, loud, systematic, continuous snoring, is most likely abnormal. You know, the sort that comedies love to play on. (I hate to admit it, but these snoring scenes always amuse me...)

"my BIGGEST HOPE is...that you don't have him on Ritlin."
"Magic pills for all", solving practical life problems for parents too busy to get involved, what a shameless scam!
Pills do have their uses. But I so often witness their abuses. No ethics in today's medical world.
Just look at Michael Jackson's alleged Doctor. Had the degree, but none of the soul. Just a glorified shopkeeper.
Knowingly using good healing tools for the inadequate purpose is just as bad as not knowing what you're doing... even more so, because ignorance might be an excuse, but not knowledge.
"Primum non nocere". The old latin medical proverb: "First of all, to do no harm."

"And...obviously, the more medications a person is on, the worse your sleep will be."
Generally. A good therapy can make proper use of medication, though. But that's definitely not the norm in actual medical practice. :-(
Too much easy reliance on "prescribing something". The patients themselves have a part of responsibility. They typically EXPECT us to give them a prescription every time, the more drugs on it, the more satisfying it feels. Tell them "you need nothing, just some rest and fluids", and you'll leave most of them disappointed. Probably not just in Lebanon...

It's not about "doing something", it's about knowing what to do... or sometimes to NOT do.
If I'm brought a patient that's been in cardiac arrest for 15 minutes, I'll do nothing, it's too late. Some "fine cardiologists" in Lebanon will "get to work" until they eventually manage to restart the heart. Leaving the family, every single time, with an "undead" vegetable that will never awaken.
Medicine is not about showing off.

An added word about sleep apnea: on the long term, it can cause permanent damage to the brain, like degenerative diseases (Alzheimer's, Parkinson's). Not that it's their only cause, by far.
We can practically never know whether someone who die in their sleep didn't stop breathing before their heart went on permanent strike.
Medicine is also about daring to say sometimes "we don't know, we can only guess".

..."and you have a sweet, generous, chatterbox who can, at times, be an absolute monster."
Oh, you too? So I'm not the only one to have met these! ;-)

"If that was an issue, I've have carpet-bombed Lebanon years ago. :-)"
Take a number!!!

Anon,
How about wooing us with YOUR brilliant parenting solutions to the problems of your suffering children? Come one, share the genius. Sensei. Pretty please? Look, deep bow.
(I never knew insulting your patients' parents was part of intelligent therapy, but hey, you're the well of knowledge.)

Bronislaus Janulis / Framewright said...

Pascal,

Here in the states, for us mere mortals, it is very difficult and expensive to have a child on one of the amphetamine based ADHD drugs; I hand pick up and deliver a written scrip every month. I have to present identification, and I sign for the prescription. Did I mention expensive, even with insurance? Considering that, the stereotype of handing the child a handful of pills to "lobotomize" her so I won't be bothered, seem at odds with the reality. Her teachers have ALL, been very positive about her ability to function within the constraints of the educational system, post drug. The education system is, however, another issue.

The drug is a small aspect of her on going "therapy", which includes at times, counseling, private tutors, personal attention, and one I wish there was a pill for, patience.

Here is another "issue" affecting her, family dynamics. There is no magic bullet.

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

Ah, a pill for patience. I'd pay $20 per pill for those.

Bronislaus Janulis / Framewright said...

Eolake,

I see your $20.00 and raise to $25.00.

As to the "rightness" of a particular therapy, each "patient" needs to make that decision, after research, asking questions and being interactive with their own care. Our Doctor knows he does not have all the answers; neither do we. Shades of gray.

Bron

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

Yeah. I used to be rabidly anti-drugs of any kind. But while you hear horror stories, I also started to hear many real success stories. Complexity. Grey scales. Personal research and responsibility.

Drugs can help, but generally just treat symptoms, so the deeper issues should be addressed too. (Such as fitness and emotional issues.)

TC [Girl] said...

To make myself clearer (I hope): My comment re: drugs was meant to be a general statement for anyone who might read this posting. It was not intended as an "attack" of Bron's or anyone else's choices for their children's ADHD, etc. issues.

During my clinicals and also learning about the side affects of various drugs, I came to the conclusion that if a person could have a sleep study, they might be able to prevent further damage to their bodies...starting, of course, as early as possible.

It was not uncommon for me to have patients who had 4 PAGES of medications that they were using. To me, that seems to be a case of overkill but...some people don't even seem to think twice about taking that many medications.

I witnessed a couple of patients who came in in a medicated dazed and confused "stupor". That is not the same person that I dealt with, in the morning.

I wanted to mention this because I don't think most people are aware of how much medications affect their sleep. That was the ONLY point that I was trying to make.

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

Antibiotics, properly used, treat far more than symptoms. :-)
OK, we both know you meant psychotropic drugs. Which are a TOOL, not THE solution. To paraphrase "someone", humans are a whole, not a hole for dumping pills in it. "If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." ;-)
Emotional problems always require to treat the soul, and the global body state, in the same time as the basic chemistry of the brain EVENTUALLY. Just like you can't play proper chess just by moving your queen and knights.

"A pill for patience"... :-)
Religions have been trying to perfect this one for thousands of years! Still NOT quite flawless yet.
Thank Confucius for that! Dictators everywhere would love too much to lace our drinking water with it.

Bron,
I read you about stereotypes. "Mere mortals" are about 50% of the American population at least; and we foreigners, like big pharmaceutical companies I'll bet, often forget to include that nuance in their simplified speeches.
Still, there's always some truth in stereotypes. You just have to look in the right place...
Or maybe I should say, "in the wrong place"!
Because your home seems like quite the right place for raising a child. :-)

No, YOU don't need some easy "magic pill" to cheat your way into life. You've got all the magic you need within you.
"Your mother used the oldest and most powerful magic there is in order to protect you, Harry." -- Albus Dumbledore

TC,
Point duly taken. And we are in full agreement.
Overkill, indeed. Another "stereotype", too easy to find when you look in the wrong place...

Anonymous said...

You've got all the magic you need within you.

I was with you up to this point, Pascal. Then you went all Disneyfied on me! ;-)

Anonymous said...

"This wasn't really a magic hubcap. The magic was inside you all along."
-The Tick

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

Indeed. It's one of those lessons which has to be learned many, many times. :-)

The most advanced wizard does not need a wand.

Anonymous said...

Got to love that moron Bron here. The expense of the drug and difficulty in obtaining it are supposed to be proof somehow that he isn't taking the easy way out when he certainly is. It's an easy fix in the end. Pop a pill.

neeraj said...

I'd like to comment a bit more on craniosacral therapy, because since about 20 years I'm learning and practicing craniosacral balancing, receiving as well as giving sessions. And learning never stops: Every session is new and individual, even with the same client, because everybody is unique and changes continuously.

The teachers I've learned from were trained many years very intensively by John E. Upledger and also from others, therefore they have also developped additionally some own style (see www.craniosacralbalancing.com, there you can also find a big list of practitioners in many countries all over the world, if you are interested to get a session). Hopefully I'm not bragging too much ;-), and hopefully this posting is not too late - I always take my time ...

BTW also in sessions: Usually a session takes about 1.5 hours netto, additionally some talk before for tuning in, and some time after for integrating the experience and a soft tuning out again - so, it may take 2-3 hours clock time (the subjectively experienced time is very different from that, for the client as well as for me - typically it is paradoxically timeless as well as fastgoing).

Craniosacral bodywork as I know it involves the client as a whole. So, I'd like to comment a few aspects using the typical map of man = body + mind/spirit + soul:

A few physiological aspects:

At the body level it is mostly known as "Craniosacral Therapy" (maybe seen as part of Osteopathy). I'm often wondering that even on that reduced level many medical doctors here don't know about it, even denying it!

Basic principle, roughly described and translated into "Western map": Inside the skull (= cranium) is our CNS (Central Nervous System) surrounded by a closed membrane (dura mater), which includes also the spinal chord going all the way down to the sacrum, with liquor flowing inside. That's the craniosacral system, containing about 15 billion nerve cells and additionally billions of other supporting cells, all having a cell metabolism. So, all these cells have to be nourished and the waste has to be transported away, all done rightly every moment of life - an huge task and a big wonder how our body manages it, performed by the liquor as means of transportation.

The craniosacral system can be seen as an autonomous system (like the heart/blood circulation system as another example of being autonomous) - it starts working from the very beginning of your life and is AFAIK the last one stopping its work when you are dying. But don't take man cutting into pieces too seriously - these maps are just a help for the mind and for practical purposes.

The liquor circulation works in a rhythmical way - technically described it can roughly be modeled as a two-point control system: There is a steady drainage of liquor out of the system with constant speed, so decreasing constantly the pressure of the liquor accompanied by a certain small shrinking of the skull, which is supervised by nerve cells within the sutures of the skull bones. At a certain "low threshold" new liquor starts flowing into the system with about the double speed of the drainage speed. So, pressure is now building up constantly and the skull is expanding a little bit up to a "high threshold", where the fresh liquor stops flowing in, also supervised by the nerve cells within the sutures of the skull bones, and a new cycle starts, like waves. The frequency of the main wave is about 6 ... 12 cycles per minute - so, it is very slow.

John E. Upledger has worked together with biophysicists proving the skull bone movements. I don't know why it is still controversely discussed. Furthermore his first experience (his starting point to explore all this) was during a brain surgery with INTACT dura mater (which is mostly not the case during surgery there), so he has seen the movements of the dura mater directly with his eyes. This and much more is all described in his book "Craniosacral Therapy" (Eastland Press 1983, ISBN 0-939616-01-7).

I have to split this posting ...

neeraj said...

Follow up:

However, the very first step for every practitioner is the learning to feel these pressure movements by soft touching. Because of the complex architecture of the skull every bone has its individual movement pattern (I call it "bone dance"), furthermore these pressure waves can be felt on the whole body all the way down to the feet. They are used as a means for diagnosis and treatment. The touch of the practitioner is like a gramophon needle on a record: Very soft (not more than 5 gram - o.k., there are exceptions) - if you touch too hard no information is transmitted, or at least it is very distorted. A session is more like an inner dialog, and touching is the language. Of course, talking is also used additionally, when it's appropriate.

Now as example: If you have got a blow on your head (car accident, punch-up, whatever), then it may happen that some bones on your head got stuck together on their sutures and can't move anymore following the liquor movement as it should be. As a consequence the liquor will also move differently, and so a certain area of your brain will not be fully nourished/purged anymore. This will have a lot of further consequences ...

I stop here talking about the further psychosomatic and spiritual aspects (I could go on for hours), otherwise this posting will be much too long. Just a few added comments:

... it seems they have some trouble explaining just how the frig it works.

I hope this map helps a little bit.

It's not clear what they actually do, it might be an energy healing thing like Reiki.

Not really (there are exceptions, e.g. the so-called "V-spread", see p.74 in the book mentioned above), but many practitioners have some additional education in energy work (like me), e.g. in Reiki or Prana Healing. Therefore it gets sometimes mixed up, depending on the practitioner and on the situation.

Another point of critics is often that different practitioners get different results in a session with the same client. As I've said: It's a complex communication between practitioner and client, they work as an organic whole, and it depends also on the intention and the inner context of the practitioner, what you get. And nobody complains that you get different talks, when two different people talk with the same person ... if you have ever experienced a "multiple hands-on session" (four or five practitioners working at the same time with one client), then you know how the central "breath of life" synchronizes and directs all.

Craniosacral therapy would probably be difficult with a child who doesn't like to have her head touched, a symptom of one or the other of her "issues".

Not like to being touched on the head I don't see as an issue or a symptom of one, rather as a good starting point for an especially sensitive session, assumed you find an appropriate practitioner. (BTW many "alternative" therapies have made a basic shift in the last 10 or 20 years from issue-oriented and problem-solving understanding to resource-oriented healing.)

"Not like to being touched on the head" I see as an indicator that a lot of energy is moving there, kind of entrapped, and urges to be freed ... I don't know it, but I suppose it and would try to start from there. And sometimes it's not needed at all to touch - in some sessions I have experienced: I start with a very soft touch, close my eyes and tune in, feel the bone movements and start to "talk" with them ... after some time, when I open my eyes I see, that my fingers are a few centimeters away from the body, probably since long time, but it didn't prevent the communication. Mysterious, but it works.

And if somebody really doesn't want to be touched somewhere, I start from somewhere else, and in my experience after some time it will be allowed naturally.

I have to split again ...

neeraj said...

I just want to add:

BTW there are many practitioners especially trained to work with freshly born babies. Many years ago John E. Upledger has performed a study in a child hospital showing how much this helps them for a better start into life.

O.k., now I really stop for now ... it's late, Good Night.

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

Thanks, again, Neeraj.

Did you mean "liquid" or did you really mean "liquor"?
I am used to liquor meaning alcohol. But you might mean another definition I just found: "An aqueous solution of a nonvolatile substance," which I now see it also can mean. In other words something watery, but not so watery that it flows freely.

The "healing by touch" or even "without touch" is working every day for many, but it's clearly stuff like that which skeptics have trouble with re craniosacral and other things. I suspect that it's based on the fear that if stuff we can't see or prove can work like that, then there can well be millions of invisible things out there, and they may hurt you.

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

OK, so you feel the position and movements of these skull plates... And I guess you feel something is misaligned. (?)...
What do you *do*?
Do you do anything with your fingers, or is it a mental directing of energy or what?

Bronislaus Janulis / Framewright said...

Neeraj,

"Not like to being touched on the head" I see as an indicator that a lot of energy is moving there, kind of entrapped, and urges to be freed"

I think that is very insightful, and any body who has spent time with a child with ADHD, would probably recognize, once you mentioned it. Seeing it now, I'm going to be looking into cranio-sacral therapy.

neeraj said...

Did you mean "liquid" or did you really mean "liquor"?

"Liquor" (Latin word for "fluid") is the medical term for the spinal fluid.

What do you *do*?
Do you do anything with your fingers, or is it a mental directing of energy or what?


Hard to explain, kind of both at the same time, but it's more like a happening, a "going with the flow" than a "doing" - nothing is pushed into the system, it's more like giving friendly recommendations during the dialog ... right now I have to prepare a meeting, so I will comment later a little bit more.

... I'm going to be looking into cranio-sacral therapy.

Good luck finding an experienced and sensitive practitioner ... a "good" craniosacral session may lead to some big catharsis or very deep relaxation - often both :-)

neeraj said...

Addendum:

I am used to liquor meaning alcohol.

That's similar in German language, there it's called "Likör", a special kind of flavored alcohol, mostly with about 25...30 % alcohol.

Eolake Stobblehouse said...

That's the same in Danish. Sugared and flavored alcohol. They also have it in English, spelled slightly different: Liqueur. And it has the accent on the second syllable, pronounced "li-CUER", whereas "liquor" has it on the first syllable, pronounced "likker".

Anonymous said...

Since this blog is in English maybe it should be taken as read that the meanings of the words used here should be the English meaning unless otherwise stated.

Got to go now, though, I'm late for my appointment with my phrenologist.

Anonymous said...

That's cool. I have to go see my Voodoo witch doctor. And today's been such a shitty day...I've again failed to turn lead into gold! If Isaac Newton couldn't do it....

Ginny Weasley said...

"The most advanced wizard does not need a wand."

It depends, really. Harry advanced the most with me when he offered to "show me his other magic wand".
It IS really magical, too: he can lift it with a mere thought. "Wingardium leviosa!"
My now husband sure has made a lot of progress in non-verbal magic.

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

Neeraj,
The thing is, Osteopathy and CST are "alternative medicines", as they are politely called. Many of these, such as Homeopathy, would love nothing more than to receive full official recognition, but... official mainstream Medicine only acknowledges what has been validated by the officially-defined empirical experimentation protocol, and yielded statistically significant results. You also need, as much as possible, to have an explanation for the results obtained, which would rule out coincidences or effects from something other than what is performed. (For instance: simply LISTENING to the patients, something which too many official practicioners tend to direly neglect, is already enough to bring a good part of relief through an obvious psychological mechanism.)
So far, to my knowledge, CST, Osteopathy, Homeopathy, have not passed this mandatory trial with scientifically confirmed protocols. Otherwise, they would be in the official cursus today.
Not to say it doesn't work. Neither that it does!
Plants medicine is, notoriously, at the basis of modern pharmacology. But how many "herbologists" today get their formation from unknown, unverified, sometimes even completely bogus sources? There's no sufficiently reliable monitoring of the whole system (when there even IS a System). Therefore, it's an open invitation to quacks and cons everywhere, and you're automatically treading through a minefield.
France did a major "clean-housing" a few years ago, after realizing that many "psychologists" actually didn't have an officially validated formation. You absolutely need to have a certain basic medical knowledge in order to avoid some hazards which official Medicine has encountered already and worked long and hard to optimally prevent. Typical case: suicide of a depressive patient mid-treatment.

"I have to split this posting ..."
Welcome to the club! :-(
"Frustration is a commonly experienced side effect with Blogger at higher post doses."

Speaking of which... "TO BE CONTINUED"

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

A word about Acupuncture: this is a highly interesting case of "alternative medicine", because it has proven to genuinely work, through strict experimental protocols... but it's still not known how or why! Indeed, the "meridians" and "energy lines" in the theory of Acupuncture correspond to absolutely nothing that anybody has been able to find, either anatomically or physiologically. These are not blood vessels, not nerve pathways, nothing "fits the map", so to speak. It is currently believed that, quite simply, Acupuncture "works" because it's a milleniae-old EMPIRICAL practice, and SOME of what it does has true effect (presumedly through neuro-vegetative reflex mechanisms), while some of the rest might have none at all. The overall result being genuine medical benefit.
There's still a lot to study there.
So... maybe, it's possible, there is some bona fide benefit in CST. But so far, it has not become official Medicine.
Furthermore, I seriously wonder about the professional and ethics code in such non-official branches. If you get messed up by an impostor, an incompetent, or simply somebody who knows how to but doesn't care, how are you protected?
Official Medicine is bound by a very strict legal frame. Practice without an official degree means immediate jail. Incompetence or unethical behavior, and you get sanctioned, forbidden from practice, sometimes for life, PLUS legal prosecution eventually.
But should I open some cabinet offering "aromatherapy" or "musicotherapy" and cause the death of a patient with Aids or cancer who trusted me and stopped taking its medications, and what legal frame protects them? Especially if I claimed an ability to heal or "do some good" but clearly stated that "I'm no Doctor".
And what about those "chain-miracle-doer" preachers, "hallelujah, in the name of the LORD JESUS, let my hands heal you!"?
If they commit a deception, what can you do?
As you can see, it's a very complex and delicate issue. Abusing the trust of people is just too easy, you can't just "turn official" anybody who's getting praise from some satisfied people.
There's already WAY too much sneaky stuff going on in "the Main Church" in spite of all the guidelines I've listed.
"Baa-baa, black sheep, have you any wool?
Yes I do, sir, two bags full,
I'm depositing them in my Swiss account soon,
Before playing Golf all afternoon."

[P-04's sing-along hour
will continue after these messages.]

The commercial break said...

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[Exclusively from ACME]"

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

[We now return to our cutesy program]

Now, about the theory you explain, a few comments:
I myself am not denying the CSF (Cerebro-Spinal Fluid) rhythmic flow pattern you describe. It's just not deemed very significant in Neurology and Neuro-Physiology. Just like some people have a much faster or slower heart rate and in most instances this difference is not important. Even irregular heart rhythm is not dangerous BY ITSELF, only because it signals the risk of something worse following.
To mention a significant counter-example, during open heart surgery, when extra-corporeal circulation must be instated, it has been found that a pump moving the blood CONTINUOUSLY instead of the natural beating motion, and maintaining a constant, non pulsing blood pressure, had absolutely no adverse effects. A person needing an artificial heart of the continuous pump type could live for decades with no pulse and feel "like a charm".
Bringing down the body's problems to matters of CSF flow seems both overly complicated (seeing a hign importance where there might be none) and overly simplified (what about all the rest of neuro-physiology and pathology, those countless and carefully verified findings and their correlation to health issues)? Most of the brain's nourishment comes from the blood circulation of the vessels within. CSF is essentially the local, rather particular version of the lymphatic circulation. (The "draining" of which on the hips DOES NOT help you lose any weight, BTW...) If there is no brain tissue oedema occurring, then the CSF circulation officially remains OK. Otherwise... check "Hydrocephaly" on Wikipedia for the official version on this topic.
Also, claiming that this CSF flow can be perceived outside the place where it happens, namely the cranio-spinal space [the inner skull and the spinal canal], completely enclosed by the meninges, stretches my complacence. The blood pulse can be felt throughout the body only because arteries themselves stretch everywhere; and still, if you don't feel it on an artery, the tissues themselves do not pulsate.
So, if there is something authentic there, it needs better explaining and some harder evidence. In the name of scientific methodology.
(And remember, even in official Medicine, there can be frauds, so a lot of careful supervision and cross-checking of these experimental protocols are required to give them full credibility.)

"I hope this map helps a little bit."
See what I said about Acupuncture (and I wrote that before I saw you use the same term :-). Still not quite GPS to me. What you describe seems to me quite reminiscent of kinesitherapy. Which works, but claims a lot less fancy theories. No offense meant.
To be honest I'm in love with the near-magical power of the hands, of touching, of feeling and acting and the special communication it creates with the patient, both his body and his spirit. Contact IS communication, and one more and more marginalized in modern societies, where touching is turning more and more into a taboo.
So, feeling the body, "listening" to it, looking for these small things which the classic medical examination usually disregards (classic example: tensed muscles if the patient doesn't point to them by MENTIONING some pain or stiffness)... is quite good. Undoubtedly. But... I'm still not "converting to this religion" in its entirety.
Also, an official study on Osteopathy in Europe several years back hinted to the presence of a lot of what I mentioned about "merry-go-happy look at me, I'm a Doctor" impostures and worrying approximations. If there is something authentic there, factually it's still located in the middle of a minefield. One notably more dangerous than official Medicine today. I've heard of people irreversibly damaged by some "Osteopath" crooks who manipulated their spine too much and improperly. Literally, better think about saving your own neck there.

Not done yet, but it's high time to insert a line break. Stay with me, visit's this way.

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

Now, about energy healing (the serious, ancient and established stuff that works, because there are also a lot of "self-taught" quacks around). I'll just say that to me it's similar to the Acupuncture conundrum. You could say that "it shouldn't be working, but it does". I've seen what those Shaolin monks can do. I've heard them explain how they focus their energy and/or their breath by visualizing it moving around. (That's also how people fly in DragonBallZ.) I *know* it's not a confirmed anatomical/physiological mechanism, nothing that can be objectively shown or demonstrated. And yet, they make it work.
Perhaps something beyond the scope of classic medical science, something to do with the extra-scientific domain of the spiritual? But there ARE immensely complex, and more and more well known, relationships beween the mind and the brain and the body.
Perhaps one day we'll know.
But until that day, don't expect a monastic stay in China to be refunded by your Blue Cross.

"Not like to being touched on the head" I see as an indicator that a lot of energy is moving there, kind of entrapped, and urges to be freed ...
Time to learn a new expression: Differential diagnosis. The many possible causes for most symptoms. For instance, a majority of all medical symptoms, taken individually, could possibly have their origin in cancer, multiple sclerosis, systemic tuberculosis, or tertiary syphilis! Or, more modernly, Aids. Perspective, again and again.
For "not liking to be touched on the head", it could also be, among many things, autism, or any other PSYCHOLOGICAL cause for dislike of being touched, sexual abuse, simple shyness, being disturbed from moving to a new city/neighborhood, being ticklish, having frequent bumps from playing roughly and having repeated harmless falls, getting your hair pulled by playmates (makes the scalp very sensitive)... or one of these super-sexy ladies! :-D I'll spare you the complete chapter that I could pull out from several of my reference books! ;-)
First step, especially with a child: TALK with her. Well, d'uh!
Children can be the best of all patients if you treat them properly. :-)

"I have to split again ..."
Okay. See ya!
Oh, not THAT kind of "I have to split"! :-)

Nevertheless, I'd better follow your example one last time. NEXT!

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

The issue of differencial diagnosis explains why you often get "as many opinions as you visit Doctors". To be 100% certain, instead of using your educated guess, your experience, and your professional intuition, would require to every time make a huge battery of tests. Both time-consuming and economically inconceivable...
Most especially, if you immediately go to a specialist instead of checking with a general practicioner, they'll usually think within their own branch, out of simple habit. Basic human psychology, it's not their fault, it's improper use of the System. "If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail."
Never underestimate the importance of the GP as a jack-of-all-trades. Expert at none, but often does the job... or knows which expert to direct you to. Provided (s)he takes the necessary time for a proper questioning and physical examination, and is not in a hurry to get done with it.
Years ago, I went to my Ophtalmology Professor for my routine eye check before changing glasses, and there was an old lady consulting him because "she was seeing things". Diagnosis soon established: hallucinations! He examined her eyes nevertheless (it's part of procedure: never neglect to examine patients before transfering them to Jehovah knows where), then he referred her to a Neurologist. Possible signs of senile degenerative disease. If this gets ruled out, then she'll likely meet a psychiatrist. But only then. It's called "exclusion diagnosis": always start by ruling out an ORGANIC cause in Psychiatry. All I know is, the lady's eyes were officially verified as normal. That's proper medical methodology. Start at the beginning, don't jump at conclusions without LOOKING where you are. Tempting as it may be.
As a mere trainee, I was once the first to strongly suspect a systemic disease in a Cardiology patient admitted in ICU for phlebitis. The specialist confirmed a Buerger's disease and complimented me. All I did was follow the proper rules! Initial thorough questioning of the patient gave me all the necessary clues. (Hadn't even heard of that particular one in class, it's quite rare is seems.)

"then there can well be millions of invisible things out there, and they may hurt you."
I fear not what I don't know. I'm already too busy fearing the evils that I know, and they're countless!
What you know, you can hope to take precautions again. Fear of "possibly existing unknown evils" only serves to make your life constantly miserable.
It's already enough to have to beware of every idiot who hates you for not being form the same country, region, village, religion... basically for not being their clone! :-(
And they are countless...

"I am used to liquor meaning alcohol."
In arabic, because of muslim culture, "beverage" is often used as a very official metaphor for booze.
I reckon the word "Liqueur" is directly imported from French. (Like with many alcoholic terms! :-) A votre santé, hic!

"I've again failed to turn lead into gold! If Isaac Newton couldn't do it...."
Which goes to prove that even the most respected scientific minds weren't always sure of some stuff widely believed in their time. And since then disproven by empirical verification.
I myself know several very competent colleagues who nevertheless are highly convinced MMEEH militants...

I'm expecting a few tense replies. Just a hunch... (also, my verif said "cringe"; surely a Sign!)
The (temporay) End.

neeraj said...

Now I have some spare time to comment a little bit more - o.k., it will be quite long, so some splitting is needed ... using the character counting of my text writer, frustration is easily avoided :-)

I'm expecting a few tense replies.

Not from me, I feel relaxed with your comments, moreover I appreciate them, and I like your kind of humour ...

Since many years I'm always balancing between

- "classical science, Western style", and
- "alternative methods, Eastern style".

I'm just coining these terms for simplicity, but of course it's more complex.

In my view both are complementary in a similar sense as the particle/wave complementary in classical quantum physics: In some way contradicting maps, but both needed in order to get a more complete understanding about what it means "to be here on planet Earth" and "what is growing/healing in the human journey?", and other basic questions like this.

There is no need for both ways to fight each other, instead there is IMO a big need to support each other. (BTW, many either-or questions of contradicting maps in science have after some development proven as meaningless and were dumped into the trash can of ill-posed questions.)


More specific about me:
-----------------------
On the one side I'm a phycisist having specialized on biophysics, working for many years in brain physics research in the "classical" way of physics (and BTW also developping eye trackers and working with that tool) => "objective" science. I love this - there is a lot of beauty, too (especially in mathematics, at least for me ;-).

(I'm reminded on a saying by Rodin, as far as I remember: "There is no lack of beauty in this world, there are only eyes not seeing it.")

On the other side I have participated during many years in a lot of very intensive trainings in many kinds of "alternative" bodywork (e.g. Chi Kung/Tai Chi Chuan, breething, floating tank, many kinds of very different massage and energy work, Craniosacral Balancing, Tantra bodywork), primarily not with the goal of healing other people, but in order to look inside, to understand myself better, to connect myself better with the universal flow of life by melting into it, and to grow, however my potential given from existence is => "subjective" science, in my understanding. (And in my understanding a natural basic task for everybody.) It's difficult for me to find appropriate words.

Or label it as metaphysics, nature philosophy in the old Greek sense, spiritual search ... whatever. Basically a kind of meditation practice about very basic questions like "Who am I?", "What is reality?", "What is truth?", leading to very practical consequences in daily life. I'm not saying that it's easy.

In my view "objective" science and "subjective" science are also complementary: Science is like an arrow with two tips, directed outside as well as inside, using complementary methods. And as a scientist I would feel myself fundamentally incomplete and totally out of balance, if going in one of these directions only. "The higher a tree is growing, the deeper its roots have to grow, too."

Both "ways" are synergetically coworking and therefore overlapping to a certain degree, but there are also many exclusive aspects (like with the particle/wave complementary). Not because there is a real separation, but because of our limited view: We are looking through windows at any phenomenon (inside as well as outside), and any window has a frame creating this separation. And in a way we ARE these windows. (Um, there might be some similarity, but I'm NOT talking about computer operating systems ;-)

(End of 1)

neeraj said...

(1st Follow up)

About Craniosacral Balancing:
-----------------------------
Maybe I have overestimated the role of the spinal fluid for the cell metabolism within the brain, but however CST works in detail, it works deeply, not only in my experience, but also for many other people ... but who knows, maybe we are all living in a kind of mass hallucination ;-)

In fact, 'doing' Craniosacral Balancing I don't care very much about explanations or the map I've mentioned in my earlier comment. During a session it is more like an excuse, so that the mind has some food and doesn't interfere anymore - then I can relax into the flow and let the real work happen, whatever it is, with humble surrender to the whole, whatever it is and wherever it leads. Very strange for a scientific mind, uh? But that's the complementary map ;-) Yes, in a way hardly to describe I'm stepping aside during a session, so that 'I' am not doing anything ...

But, as a basic rule (therefore I didn't mention it), I always tune in with the client before starting a session and ask also: What is the personal state? What is the medical state? What is already ruled out? And if I see something else having to be checked, I recommend it very much to do before or after I'm giving a session (depends on the situation). Furthermore there are a few contraindications for Cranio sessions, e.g. a recent brain concussion, and I refuse then to give a Cranio session ... maybe I'm just talking then, giving my attention and love, without judging anything (which is a basic thing anyway).

Concerning the rhythmic flow pattern: Maybe I was not very specific. The speed itself is individually different and not sooo important, it's more like a carrier for information by the small variations superimposed: Characteristics like strength, amplitude, symmetry (e.g. related to a certain "neutral point" and/or related to the body symmetry) and the pattern structure itself of a certain bone or somewhere else on the body, and how it is changing during a session gives me a lot of feedback, when I'm 'talking' with the body using my hands. It is amazing, how much and how deep I'm connected with somebody else using this kind of soft "Cranio touch" - I tend to think, that it is so powerful because it is so soft, that there is no strategy of protection or defensiveness against it.

"I've heard of people irreversibly damaged by some "Osteopath" crooks who manipulated their spine too much and improperly."

Sounds more like a "Chiropractitioner" - they can be a little bit rough sometimes with their "direct" manipulation of the bone structure. It can have benefits, and there are people really good with this, but it is dangerous especially if performed by beginners - so, be aware. Anyway, it's not my kind of work. "Osteopathy" is something else, much softer and often working "indirectly". Anyway, Craniosacral Balancing is something special beyond Osteopathy, and again mostly much softer ...

Basically it's NOT dangerous, if the rhythm stops for some time, if it happens completely in the whole body - e.g. there is the so-called "still point": The movements stop completely, sometimes for a short time, sometimes for a very long time - in extreme it can be nearly the whole session after the first soft touch saying hello, a very deep rest triggering some deep healing, and a great meditation for both. Which means that it is very much needed by the system. Sometimes during a session I'm sending a soft invitation to go into still point, and the system follows sometimes eagerly, sometimes not at all ... nothing is forced, nothing is pushed into the system. (O.k., as with every rule there are exceptions, e.g. when during an emotional catharsis the body needs some resistance as a help to work with it.)


(End of 2)

neeraj said...

(2nd Follow up)

These movements are a very powerful diagnostic tool, too. E.g. when I'm talking additionally with the client (I mean using words) about something, then sometimes the rhythm stops suddenly as if having run against a wall (this feels quite differently than a still point) - then I know for sure it's "hot stuff" we are talking about, and I can follow (or not) this way further, depending on how the flow leads me. Sometimes a client talks about dramatic pictures he is seeing right now, and I don't feel any change of the rhythm - then I know for sure it's "hot air", nothing serious. In any case, as mentioned above: Giving my attention and love, without judging anything ...

Or, another example: When I follow the movements feeling them all over the body, from the head all the way down to the feet (something similar in checking complex electronics is called "signal tracing"), I can feel a lot about areas of the body where some attention is eagerly needed, of course with all the somato-emotional connections possibly behind it.

A really "magic bone" is the sphenoid bone, located inside the skull. BTW if someone reading this is interested to learn about the human bone architecture and especially the amazing architecture of the skull, there is a VERY GOOD FREEWARE "BoneLab", available at www.nextd.com/downloads.asp (sorry, only for WinXP or Vista, about 15.6 MB). As described on the website www.nextd.com/bonelab.asp: "BoneLab is a teaching and learning tool for medical professionals, students and anyone who is interested in skeletal anatomy. It is based on the integrated human 3D skeleton model with the highest level of detail presently available. BoneLab is a free program for Windows." (My 4 years old WinXP-Office-computer handles it without any problem. Hopefully you have a big screen ;-)

Back to the sphenoid - I could talk for hours about its magic ... I'd like to give just some examples: Many years ago in Pune, a girlfriend (BTW a medical student, and a real beauty) knocked at my door late at night and said after coming in: "I have got a terrible migraine. Can you do something with Cranio work?" And it was really a migraine, not just a simple headache. So I checked the Cranio rhythm all over the body with the result: It felt all quite o.k. except the sphenoid, which was somehow totally stuck - no movement at all. Very strange. Never again I was confronted with that situation.

So I 'worked' on the sphenoid bone for about half an hour, inviting this bone to move freely again, and it did follow my invitation. And the migraine was fading away and mostly gone within about one hour ... after the session she told me, that it felt for her as if a valve of a pressure box was opened, and all the pressure was going out giving a big relief. The following day she was a bit wobbly on her feet - sometimes the treatment of the sphenoid (and/or of the temporal bones) influences the balancing system for a while. So, riding a bike or motorbike short after a session should then be avoided. That's another general experience: A Craniosacral Balancing treatment has often for a few days some deep after effects you should be aware of.

If the sphenoid, the atlas-occiput connection and the L5-S1 connection are all stuck at the same time, then very probably you have got a depression. It's not true reciprocally, a depression can have many other reasons, but it's good to check and to rule it out. Of course I'm very caring in situations like that.


(End of 3)

neeraj said...

(3rd Follow up)

I'm not sure whether it's a "correct" medical explanation, but it would confirm my practical experience: The sphenoid is kind of massaging the pituitary gland by its moving, and the pituitary gland is in some way influencing the whole endocrine system, therefore also influencing the hormone balance. So, a freely moving sphenoid creates (beside many other effects) a better hormone balance ... I have had many sessions with women, where I was able to invite the sphenoid to move more freely and with more strength. And after some time many of these women told me, that after the session their menstruation was now very regular and without any cramps and/or pain compared to before. Sometimes including a much enhanced feeling about "being a woman". A really nice result :-)

Enough examples for now.

Summing up I can say out of my experience: Craniosacral Balancing works, and it works complementary to the "Western style", as many "alternative methods" do - see the next chapter about acupuncture. And also in my experience, more and more people are becoming aware that the "Western style" (as great as it is) is missing something fundamental ...


About acupuncture:
------------------
I have not learned it, but experienced very often and observed in many ways.

Acupuncture is mostly misinterpreted (as related to organs and symptoms) and therefore greatly underestimated by our "Western map" of understanding the body as a kind of a biochemical and/or mechanical machine. Chinese healing arts have a history of some thousand years based on a complementary map of holistic understanding. Don't underestimate acupuncture, better recognize that most acupuncturists here have a very poor training and understanding about it!

For example the map of "energy meridians" or of the "five elements" is just a tool for beginners, a kind of kindergarten. But sometimes even that works.

The next step of learning is: Meridians are NOT static, but more like a dynamic energy pattern, an energetic map distributed on the body. Maybe similar to standing waves, and changing a little bit all the time.

And the "five elements" are NOT static material things as our understanding of an "element" might be, but a horribly misleading translation of the rather poetic but precise meanings in original Chinese language into Western understanding. They are basic energetic qualities in a dynamic network of subtle balance, more or less stable, but moving all the time, fueling and controling each other at the same time - once you get some understanding of it, you can see it everywhere in nature.

Many or even most acupuncture points are NOT located on meridians (whatever that is), and if a needle set by some acupuncturist hurts badly, then you should run away as fast as possible - acupuncture points are NOT connected with pain sensitive nerve endings. And needles are NOT going deep, only one millimeter at the most, if handled by a master.

The most stupid saying I have heard from "Western acupuncturists" is: Acupuncture needles have to hurt, because it is a stimulus oriented therapy. OMG ...!

(End of 4)

neeraj said...

(4th Follow up)

I'm lucky to have not only one but two long-time friends being both acupuncture masters (big word, but yes, really) with a life-long training and understanding of the complementary map. So, I could observe it for many years, sometimes great healings including but not restricted to the body level, including my own experiences of getting many sessions.

A minor example on the body level, compared to the real potential, but an impressive one: We were helping another friend to move. During dragging some furniture my friend bruised his thumb very badly (it was short before lunch). With a deep damage like that you would run immediately to the next hospital for treatment and some surgery, and maybe after two weeks or so it would have healed. But he set simply a few needles into his thumb (doing nothing else about the wound), and you could nearly watch it healing ... sounds unbelievable, but I have seen it. About two hours later after lunch he started to help again, of course careful, doing only easy work, and being again without needles, but nearly not handicapped. A few days later there was nothing to see anymore on the thumb. (He explained something like: "Acupuncture is very powerful for healing of wounds - the needles properly set trigger the self-healing forces to work coherently, therefore being much more powerful. Like the difference between coherent laser light and normal light.")

Another body-oriented example: Many years ago, the other one of my friends had a bad ski accident - one of the knees was badly injured. The bones were still o.k. and not broken, but the meniscus was a big mess (it was checked in a hospital). I don't remember how much affected the cruciate ligaments were. Anyway, this would usually be treated with some deep knee surgery, taking many months for healing after that, with a not very certain result. But she (yes, a woman) refused that, and with her acupuncture (and some supporting Craniosacral Balancing by me :-) it was healed after about three or four months, and she was hiking and skiing in the Alps again as if nothing had happened. Another example: Being in a dental treatment (even a heavy one) she refuses any anaesthesia, simply setting a few needles on her upper leg. And a last one: If she touches accidentally a hot stove, she sets a few needles ... in the last 20 years I have never seen her with any blister (except when she forgot to set the needles, because she has taken it for granted not to get one ;-).

I could go on and on with further examples, some unbelievable for our Western map of understanding. For me, discussions about acupuncture in contemporary Western medical literature are mostly unbelievably stupid. As far as I can see, the "Western kind of trying to understand" is simply not the appropriate tool for understanding acupuncture, and if you have only a hammer as a tool ...

If you are lucky to observe an acupuncture master working, you may recognize that (s)he is performing like directing a symphony orchestra without beforehand knowledge of the score - a great improvisation while being connected with an universal timeless flow, and therefore flawless. That's "objective art" performed out of meditation, not simple technical knowledge. Understanding of "Wei Wu Wei" = doing without doing. Impossible to learn in a technical course of some weeks or months, or even a few years - it needs a life-long dedication (maybe not only for one life, but that's another story ;-).

Not to be misunderstood: Before someone reaches that level, one has to go through a lot of technical learning, until one can go beyond. I estimate it takes at least about ten to fifteen years of dedication to come near that point, if one is trained to learn in "Western style". And after that, learning is still going on and on. (There is a complementary way to learn in "Eastern style", taking not so much time, because it's more appropriate to the essence of acupuncture, but that's now too much to talk about more in detail.)

(End of 5)

neeraj said...

(5th Follow up)

The needles are set very precisely, not out of some technical knowledge, but out of the coherent coworking life energy of both, of the acupuncturist as well as of the patient. As my friends explained me: " 'Doing' acupuncture I'm on a journey into not knowing anything. 'I' am no more. 'I' only 'see' the next point to be needled and whether a golden or silver needle is the appropriate one, showing up again and again in a timeless flow. And when I approach the point with my needle, I feel a kind of a magnetic pull into the precise position. The unknown way together is created by going step by step, one after another, connected by some universal force, and I get to know in the same way, when it's time to fade out of the composition."

Sometimes there are up to fifty needles, sometimes much less. When I've got a session, I often nearly don't feel the needle when it is set, sometimes there is a small and short sting, and sometimes I feel a kind of a more or less soft electric jolt through my body.

And that's not the whole story: After having set all needles, they 'feel' from some distance (they have to go and leave the patient alone, so that the needles are working 'undisturbed') when the needles have done their work, mostly in the range of about 15 to 20 minutes clocktime. When I've got a session I'm during that time in a deeply relaxed and timeless state, and my 'coming back' and their 'feeling' were always synchronous. Then the pulling out of the needles is NOT by random, it is also kind of a composition needing the right sequence. Sometimes it happens that one of the needles has not yet finished completely its work - in that case it is kind of glued to the body, and if you pull it out with force, some flesh magnetically glued to the needle will also come out. So, one has to be careful about that.

The essence of acupuncture is complementary to the "officially-defined empirical experimentation protocol" out of "Western style" - try to evaluate any discipline of creative art performed by naive beginners (no offense) within the framework of this kind of "protocol" ...

But still, as you say, at least concerning acupuncture (performed even on a lower level of understanding) there are some statistically significant results, mostly with treating pain by reducing or removing the symptoms, but that's not "healing", it's acupuncture on the lowest possible symptom-related level (called in the Chinese tradition "barefooted medicine", related to the quacks being so poor that they couldn't afford shoes - they were wandering over the vast country and doing this kind of acupuncture in the remote villages, so that sick people were getting able to do the long journey to a better acupuncturist in the next big town).

Suppressing any symptom is NOT healing, and whatever is not energetically balanced in the system will come out after some time somewhere else with another symptoms, mostly with bigger force and more pain than before ...

O.k., it's still very much simplified.


Final remark:
-------------
You are right, there are "quacks and cons everywhere", because the healing market is now big business, but that's not depending on "Western style" or "Eastern style". Just look at the billion dollar behaviour of big pharmaceutical corporations, or at the behaviour of some Western physicians using their job as a money printing machine, even by harming their patients.

That's simply greediness out of childish egoistic fear. So, I see as basic question: How to trigger healing/growing in order to become adult ...?

And I agree, in the meantime we need some kind of supervision, BUT the "officially-defined empirical experimentation protocol" is much too limited, as far as I can say ...

O.k., enough for now ;-)


(I suppose, this is my longest posting ever - maybe also generally establishing a new record ;-)



(End of 6)

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

"there are also many exclusive aspects (like with the particle/wave complementary). Not because there is a real separation, but because of our limited view"
Heeey, nice one! Can't argue with THAT.

"And in a way we ARE these windows."
Careful there, or pretty soon Bill Gates will be asking you for royalties. :-)
"And every time you hum our song, you have to pay us."

"but who knows, maybe we are all living in a kind of mass hallucination ;-)"
This would explain SO MUCH about that whole world making so little sense. ;-)
Of course, you can also seek refuge into thoughtless bigotry. Seems to work rather efficiently for some.
"I don't need to understand anything. God knows. So let's just slay all the unbelievers. Hallelujah and Allah akbar!"

"During a session it is more like an excuse[...] Very strange for a scientific mind, uh?"
If you insist. To paraphrase Forrest Gump, "Strange is as strange does". As long as you don't turn it into a religion, whatever makes you feel good is just fine, go right ahead. :-)

"Furthermore there are a few contraindications for Cranio sessions, e.g. a recent brain concussion, and I refuse then to give a Cranio session "
Nice to hear. There are not ONLY quacks out there. :-)
The moment a person cares and is careful to have as much knowledge baggage as possible, they can be trusted.

The dramatic consequences I've mentioned were, I certify, from a Reader's Digest investigation article on Osteopathy. Now, if some crooks mix chiro and osteo with equal ineptitude, it's not my fault or the reporter's...

[Got to split. See you in a click.]

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

Looks like your described CST is essentially in the "extra-scientific" domain, relying in greatest part on perception, feeling, "intuition" so to speak.
With a proper and ethical person, this can be the ideal complement, the "wave to the particle".
But... it is so very important to know whether the person you trust IS like that. Say, a bit like with "psychics".

Maybe you've got what is called in French "a fluid"? You know, a gift of perception. Like for finding water. My grandfather was quite good at that. (And never took a cent for doing it; he felt he had no right to "market" a God-given gift, so he always did it for free.)
I don't think I've got his talents (then again, who knows?), but like him, I'm rather good at predicting stuff with the pendulum. And I'll be danged if I have any idea how it "works". I don't even "feel" anything... but it works! Proven by mixing the identical-looking paper bits carrying the questions so that I can have no idea which is which. Interestingly, the pendulum always "refuses" to answer when it's about gaining money. Never gives any help with playing the lottery or horse races. You can even suspect such questions from the absence of "yes" or "no" answer.
I occasionally do it for fun, never give it too much credit... but still, it seems to always be right. :-)
And supremely uncomplicated to do, too. No special pendulum is necessary. Just some weight tied to some string or chain.
I'm a rational who seems to have inherited an irrational "gift" of my own. Gotta live with it. (Hey, it sure could be worse! :-)
Still a great Mystery, the Force is.

What you describe is VERY reminiscent of Acupuncture: no theoretically valid scientific base/explanation, but "it works". Empirical proof that there is something there which cannot be explained by today's science. Yet. Anyway, I bet you've heard this many times before: "I don't know what you're doing there, but keep doing it!"

"sometimes the treatment of the sphenoid (and/or of the temporal bones) influences the balancing system for a while."
Hey, this is an objective indication that you ARE actually doing something. And apparently, something affecting the local circulation of CSF. Very interesting...
Does treating the temporal bones have the same effect?

[slice 'n' dicing time]

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

"I'm not sure whether it's a "correct" medical explanation, but it would confirm my practical experience: The sphenoid is kind of massaging the pituitary gland by its moving"
I can't tell. A few things are for sure:
- What you "feel" beyond the cranium and spine, "all through the body", is not CSF circulation. Now, something else, perhaps the same as the asian Medicine "Chi"? Quite possible.
- The pituitary plays a major role in the body's balance, through the hormonal status. Undoubtedly. And these phenomenons are still in part terra ingognita as far as the global well-being is involved. Just ask any woman with PMS. Which is no illusion either!
- The sphenoid is, literally, the keystone of the skull. Theoretically, well and safe in the center. But practically, very reactive. It separates the pituitary from the outer milieu (in the bottom of the nasal cavity) solely by the two walls of the sphenoidal sinus, which allows easy surgical access of pituitary tumors, but also propagation of the meningitis germs from the upper airways to the brain (this is why meningitis can be so dramatically contagious!), and cranio-facial traumas/fractures can also breach it and allow for dramatic infections. So it's by no means an impregnable, invulnerable, rigid fortress. "What you do that works" can definitely affect it.

I'm not a fan of "Scientism", that late 19th century atheist ideology which considered anything not explained/justified/sanctiond by Science as bogus, illusory, non-existent. Maybe all those similar medical mysteries have a common explanation. Also, the placebo effect itself is PROVEN to have an organic component, so it's not mere "suggestion" of the patient.

"and the pituitary gland is in some way influencing the whole endocrine system"
That way -THESE ways, more aptly- are well known today: some direct and indirect instructions from the hypothalamus through the pituitary stalk and its vessels, and hormonal feedback from & by the bloodstream using the pituitary's specific hormones, which target most other endocrine glands. I'll spare you the abominably complicated details. (Endocrinology was never my strongest subject anyway. ;-)

"Sometimes including a much enhanced feeling about "being a woman". A really nice result"
You don't say! :-)
It's SO rewarding to help people recover their most intimate well-being.

"more and more people are becoming aware that the "Western style" (as great as it is) is missing something fundamental"
A certain... soul, maybe? :-\
Too much materialism these days, too many daily distractions and futile worries, people literally work their life away. Endless credits to pursue the wild goose of consumerism and appearances. The tyranny of other people's opinions/judgement. All the stress, cruel, arbitrary and pointless. And once old, suddenly they feel like they haven't truly lived.

"Don't underestimate acupuncture, better recognize that most acupuncturists here have a very poor training and understanding about it!"
What I said about the absence of anatomical/physiological equivalent of Acupuncture maps was based on "the real stuff" from the established and official Asian tradition. Just to be clear.

[snip, snip]

Pascal [P-04referent] said...

"the "five elements" [...] are basic energetic qualities"
Rather like the humoral theory of Hipocrates, I can imagine. Classifying illnesses as imbalances of humidity (being too "dry" or "humid") and temperature (too "hot" or "cold"), among other things.
Except Hippocrates focused so much on his fancy theories, he completely neglected the empirical part which the Chinese worked on for millenia, getting Acupucture to heal more patients than it killed ones. A welcome difference. (I'm a fan of Molière, as you can guess.)

Otherwise put: it might not explain things in a way conform to the rules of objective Western Science, it's got a lot of "poetic intuition", but if it works... then there's definitely something worthy there. Useful, and interesting to one day understand. Might even revolutionize Science precisely in the domains where its definition makes it intrinsically limited.

The "Positivism" of Western science has proven an awesome tool, and is still far from having exhausted all its potential (it probably never will!). But like all tools, it is intrinsically limited to some domains, and excluded from others. You can't sculpt wood with a screwdriver. At best, you'll get a very ugly sculpture.

"acupuncture [...] needles are NOT going deep, only one millimeter at the most"
Reminds me of something I read about torture: cigarette burns are way more "efficient" than a blowtorch. Because an intense flame destroys the outer skin, where the greatest concentration of nerve endings (for pain and all the rest) are located. Anybody who's had a paper cut knows how absurdly sensitive they are. Precisely BECAUSE they're superficial.
So, acupuncture doesn't have to hurt, and doesn't necessarily have to go deep. This I knew well. But how about those "modernists" that reinforce the action of the needles with a small amount of electricity? (In case it's not painful either, I mean?)

"they have to go and leave the patient alone, so that the needles are working 'undisturbed' "
Ah. I remember noticing that part. :-)

"Just look at the billion dollar behaviour of big pharmaceutical corporations, or at the behaviour of some Western physicians using their job as a money printing machine, even by harming their patients."
I thought we agreed to leave Michael Jackson out of this? :-/

So, globally, we're not in disagreement here. :-)
Still, I don't understand: the augury from my Captcha was *quite* clear! Expect to see tension.
Where are all those edgy MMEEH militants when you hint negatively at them? ;-)

P.S.: About that alleged record, we'd have to ask the Captain. Not sure five of the currently allowed comments will suffice. I've set the bar pretty high in my time. ;-)