Notes on life, art, photography and technology, by a Danish dropout bohemian.
When you drink the water, remember the river.
Tuesday, February 17, 2009
The Vermont Country Store is selling what?
The Vermont Country Store is selling what?, article. It never ceases to amaze me, the intensity of the fear and guilt anything sexual provokes in the human animal.
15 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Eo, You've got to remember, New England was settled by the Puritans! The old Yankee way of thinking is hard to change. New Englanders, especially the older generation northern New Englanders, are a slow to change crowd. I've lived in VT since I was 5, so I've seen it firsthand. Heck, rural electrification didn't happen until the 1920's. Until the last couple of decades, the cows used to outnumber the people in VT!
Thank you for presenting this article! It is astonishing to me. The comments under the article are also interesting. I had heard about prudes, but hadn't seen examples of this kind of reactions.
Though I think this is really not connected with "the human animal". Shame and guilt are induced by culture, education, I think it doesn't have to be.
In every culture there is huge institutional effort made to control and canalize sexuality. That is a basic constant.
The prohibition of incest is the first building block to society, and it is there in every culture.
I guess the incorporation of a certain amount of shame and guilt is the price the "human animal" pays to live in society, to be socialized. (Greatly variable amount.)
It's also that when I read the article and comments, I thought: "this is really american prude culture", and not "this is really human nature", as it sounds quite artificial to me.
Fair enough. Many European countries certain have less, but it's there. You don't see any girls walking topless in the streets, and there's a reason for that.
Well, if there were no rules at all, everybody would steal from, kill or bang everybody all the time at the first impulse. Some rules are probably needed. And as you cannot put a policeman behind each and every person to make them respect those rules (and who would control the policeman, then?), rules had to be incorporated. Evolution provided us with inner gatekeeper emotions. All range of other social animals actually also have inner gatekeepers.
So we have small inner controllers in our mind hurting us through shame and guilt if we do transgress rules, so that we don't do it too often. Basically for the society's and our own good, as we do want to live in society, so we have to control our impulses.
Some people can very well use those rules to control others. I guess the control on sexual behavior and though control are closely linked in any given society.
There has to be continual negotiations on the actual rules.
This reminds me of this video: the Ten Commandments, revisited.
Hum, I didn't get it. (my english isn't enough...) You would like to argue with this?
Then why not to argue with it?
I mean... if your answer means: "I don't agree, but I will not tell where and why", then I should think what is probably the truth: I am just writing too much. :-)
I don't think it is rational in the sense that you should consciously want it. It is just logic from the point of view of how it comes that we have it.
Understanding the causes or the purposes does not mean to agree with it or find it good for its own sake.
Anyway, a lot of things are so irrational, build in our mind either by the genes that want to replicate through us, or the society that wants to control us.
So little space left for liberty, for own goals set freely.
Pleasure is as irrational as guilt. As stupid as guilt or fear.
15 comments:
Eo,
You've got to remember, New England was settled by the Puritans! The old Yankee way of thinking is hard to change. New Englanders, especially the older generation northern New Englanders, are a slow to change crowd. I've lived in VT since I was 5, so I've seen it firsthand. Heck, rural electrification didn't happen until the 1920's. Until the last couple of decades, the cows used to outnumber the people in VT!
Interesting.
Thank you for presenting this article! It is astonishing to me. The comments under the article are also interesting. I had heard about prudes, but hadn't seen examples of this kind of reactions.
Though I think this is really not connected with "the human animal". Shame and guilt are induced by culture, education, I think it doesn't have to be.
Yeah, but there must be something more basic, otherwise it wouldn't appear in *all* cultures, as it seems to do.
In every culture there is huge institutional effort made to control and canalize sexuality. That is a basic constant.
The prohibition of incest is the first building block to society, and it is there in every culture.
I guess the incorporation of a certain amount of shame and guilt is the price the "human animal" pays to live in society, to be socialized. (Greatly variable amount.)
It's also that when I read the article and comments, I thought: "this is really american prude culture", and not "this is really human nature", as it sounds quite artificial to me.
Fair enough. Many European countries certain have less, but it's there. You don't see any girls walking topless in the streets, and there's a reason for that.
And if you look at the rest of the world, oh my.
Well, if there were no rules at all, everybody would steal from, kill or bang everybody all the time at the first impulse. Some rules are probably needed. And as you cannot put a policeman behind each and every person to make them respect those rules (and who would control the policeman, then?), rules had to be incorporated. Evolution provided us with inner gatekeeper emotions. All range of other social animals actually also have inner gatekeepers.
So we have small inner controllers in our mind hurting us through shame and guilt if we do transgress rules, so that we don't do it too often. Basically for the society's and our own good, as we do want to live in society, so we have to control our impulses.
Some people can very well use those rules to control others. I guess the control on sexual behavior and though control are closely linked in any given society.
There has to be continual negotiations on the actual rules.
This reminds me of this video: the Ten Commandments, revisited.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpL2m6XJhQw
Well, can't argue with that, much as I'd like to.
"much as I'd like to."
Hum, I didn't get it. (my english isn't enough...) You would like to argue with this?
Then why not to argue with it?
I mean... if your answer means: "I don't agree, but I will not tell where and why", then I should think what is probably the truth: I am just writing too much. :-)
Just means I still feel that guilt over sex in and off itself is irrational, but that I can't argue with your logic.
I don't think it is rational in the sense that you should consciously want it. It is just logic from the point of view of how it comes that we have it.
Understanding the causes or the purposes does not mean to agree with it or find it good for its own sake.
Quite true.
Anyway, a lot of things are so irrational, build in our mind either by the genes that want to replicate through us, or the society that wants to control us.
So little space left for liberty, for own goals set freely.
Pleasure is as irrational as guilt. As stupid as guilt or fear.
You may be onto something there. But it's hard to grasp. You should write a short article about it, either for your own blog or for mine.
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