It seems Britain is reconsidering David Icke. I didn't see that coming. (No, he is not dead, despite the clumsy use of the past tense in the title.)
He's a character. Like Stuart Wilde and surely many other visionaries, he is mixing truths with the most outrageous visions and beliefs.
A few years ago when I was into conspiracies, I read a couple of his books. He said that being intensely, overwhelmingly ridiculed in Britain back after being on the Terry Wogan show in 1991 had freed him mentally. But seeing him watch the show now makes it clear that he is still angry about it, so he's not all enlightened.
From his wiki article:
In an interview on the Terry Wogan show that year, he announced that he was "the son of God,"[13] and that Britain would be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes. His statements were met with laughter and ridicule from the studio audience, derision in the press, and suggestions that he was mentally ill. Icke later said that he had been misinterpreted by the media. According to Icke, he used the term "the son of God" "… in the sense of being an aspect, as I understood it at the time, of the Infinite consciousness that is everything. As I have written before, we are like droplets of water in an ocean of infinite consciousness."
I don't blame him for being, er, eccentric. I had powerful "unity experiences" myself in the eighties, and it unbalanced me, I had the weirdest beliefs for many years, although I at least had the sense not to go on TV with them.
And funny enough just today I've gotten consolidated how a contact with the infinite is indeed often devastating to the ego, to the self. Stark anxieties or depressions are not uncommon.
18 comments:
I really like Icke, for real. He's a few steps ahead of ther elite and way ahead of his times. He's an amazing fellow indeed, and I'm sure he was hurt by Wogan and wouldn't be surprised if it still stings. Wogan was an ass and still is.
Doubtlessly. (I don't know Wogan, I rarely watch TV.) And it's normal. But David would feel better if he'd let go of those feelings. It's not easy, but it's the path forward.
"Stark anxieties or depressions are not uncommon."
After having a glimpse of God? Does not compute. Something's wrong here, man.
How could it possibly bring anything but joy, peace, or at the very least renewed hope?
Shucks. Had forgotten to check the comments e-mail follow-up. Hello anguish.
So much for good obsessive-compulsive [dis]orderly habits.
"How could it possibly bring anything but joy, peace, or at the very least renewed hope?"
You'd think. But the whole basis of the ego is the false idea of separation from god, and the ego (our self) is terrified of God, because it believes uniting with god would mean the end of itself. Which is true, but it doesn't know it's illusory.
That terror so stark and intense that it's usually 99.999% hidden.
After having a glimpse of God? Does not compute.
Not only does not compute, but crashes real bad. The idea Eo is referring to comes from a book called A Course In Miracles. The best summary I can give of the book is this:
It wants to convince the reader that it is a metaphysical book using religious terms for illustration. But in actuality, it is a religious book posing as a metaphysical book. The whole book is basically a remap of religious/cult ideas to more current spiritual concepts. I will point the main ones out to you:
☞ Satan/enemy of the soul → ego
☞ Satan is luring and misleading you → the ego is afraid of God
☞ we are sinners in a materialistic world → the world is an illusion
☞ worship and suffer now for salvation later → you must go through pain to get to God
How anyone could believe in the ACIM ideology and not become deeply depressed is beyond me. But I guess that is its whole idea.
For, if I wanted to devise a system of thought which allowed one to passivate and control masses in an era where Christianity had lost its grip, ACIM is exactly the kind of system I would use.
I am not saying this is what's behind ACIM, but it is interesting to note that according to Wikipedia, one of the book's writers received funding from CIA's mind-control project MKULTRA for research into the human personality.
Interesting ... this had escaped me earlier ... Wikipedia also says: "According to Dr Colin Ross, from 1951 to 1953 Thetford worked on Project BLUEBIRD, an early CIA mind control program."
So, to recap:
1951-1953 CIA Project BLUEBIRD
1965-1972 The years of ACIM transcription
1971-1978 CIA Project MKULTRA
Would you buy a used religion from this man?
Au contraire, A Course In Miracles says suffering is unnecessary, it only happens because of what we believe.
For anybody curious about acim, I recommend:
http://tr.im/diu9
A friend of mine knew Bill very closely, and she is working on a book about him. She says:
---
Bill never worked with MKUltra, Bluebird, etc. or any of the other mind-control related projects. That was another division, one not connected to his. When he worked for the CIA as young man, he was a senior psychologist with the assessment and evaluation team, testing and evaluating potential intelligence officers. While there, he became fascinated by the work of John Gittinger and his newly developed Personality Assessment System. Bill left the CIA after three years but continued to do research on the PAS while at other institutions for more than twenty years, as did others at many universities. All the other details are in my book, hopefully soon to be finished.
---
A Course In Miracles says suffering is unnecessary, it only happens because of what we believe.
I understand, but what's the difference though? It does seem to be an issue to ACIM students, and it only becomes an issue after they have become ACIM students.
You don't hear students of other paths, Zen Buddhism for example, talk about how "contact with the infinite is devastating to the self", or how "stark anxieties or depressions are not uncommon".
I'm not saying that there would never be value in pain or suffering. People do choose such experiences for individual reasons. But as the good doctor points out: When contact with God is associated with depression, something doesn't quite compute.
Bill never worked with MKUltra, Bluebird, etc. or any of the other mind-control related projects.
The sources cited in Wikipedia are:
1. Ross, Colin (2000). Bluebird: Deliberate Creation of Multiple Personalities by Psychiatrists. Manitou Communications.
2. RA: MKULTRA de-classified documents
3. Dr. Willian N, Thetford Vita
#2 says: "Subproject 130: MKULTRA: Personality Theory, David Saunders/William Thetford; Columbia Univ."
The server for #3 is not responding at the moment.
I think the issue only comes up when you're undoing the ego much faster than ordinary.
Many teachers outside ACIM report something similar, for example Eckhart Tolle and Byron Katie had deep depressions before the became Awakened.
Also, I have not heard it's typical for A Course In Miracles students. I've no idea what the percentage is.
And by the way, A Course In Miracles is not about contact with god, it's about undoing the thinking of the ego. The contact thing has nothing to do with it, that is a thing that usually happens spontaneously.
@ttl: "You don't hear students of other paths, Zen Buddhism for example, talk about how "contact with the infinite is devastating to the self" ...
Oh well, in the contrary - in Zen tradition it is a well known fact, that awakening is inevitably connected with a breakdown of the complete ego-structure, which is not at all pleasant ...
Or you may read the book "Collision with Infinity" by Susanne Segal, where she describes her breakdown and her following ten years long panicky struggle to get accustomed with it.
Probably you mean mystical experiences of unity ("Satori"), but these are experiences WITHIN your structure - very pleasant and overwhelming, but they come and go, and then fade away like a dream ...
Ok, I got through to archive.org (the 3rd reference above). The document is William Thetford's Curriculum Vita maintained in www.miraclestudies.net/BillVita.html.
Archived versions up to Jun 21, 2006 include this entry:
1971 - 1978 Professor of Medical Psychology "Personality theory" research project. Subprogram of CIA MK ULTRA
Interestingly, in versions starting Sep 06, 2006 that entry has been edited to:
1971 - 1978 Professor of Medical Psychology "Personality theory" research project.
We know from the MKULTRA de-classified documents that the project was indeed part of MKULTRA, so apparently this edit was an attempt to "forget" that fact.
Of the years when he allegedly worked for CIA Project BLUEBIRD (1951 to 1953), the CV says:
1951 - 1954 U.S. Government psychologist, Washington D.C., One year (1953) as consultant to Foreign Service Institute, Beirut, Lebanon.
But it is not the CV that the BLUEBIRD claim in Wikipedia is based on, but rather this book. From the Amazon reviews, it looks like an interesting read.
Sorry, I have to correct: The book I mentioned is not
"Collision with Infinity" by Susanne Segal, but
"Collision with the Infinite" by Suzanne Segal
www.amazon.com/Collision-Infinite-Life-Beyond-Personal/dp/1884997279/ref=sr_1_1/185-7886303-4864033?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233269922&sr=1-1
Yes, and just today, I was reading Jed McKenna's second book. He quotes Bernadette Roberts. Both of them claims to be Awakened, and I believe them both.
She said:
"I realize that no contemplative path wants to advertise the cross or the suffering entailed in the crossing over. ... The truth is that getting to the other shore will stretch the human limits to the breaking point..."
And these two people *also* have nothing to do with A Course In Miracles. In fact I'm not even sure I've heard Course students or teachers talking about this.
Both of them claims to be Awakened...
But isn't Jed McKenna a fictional character? Like “Don Juan” of the Carlos Castaneda books. Or like the main character (and the Messiah) of Richard Bach's Illusions.
I have understood that all McKenna's books are fictional stories. (I haven't read any of them, though.)
The truth is that getting to the other shore ...
I understand. But that concept of "other shore" is part of the belief system she is speaking from.
In my reality, you don't need to get to any other shore to become enlightened. Or to put it in another way: we all are on both shores already.
@ttl:
1. But isn't Jed McKenna a fictional character?
Doesn't matter - me, you, everybody is a fictional character ... try to define yourself: Who am I?
In my experience, it is the same as if you try to define a hole in a piece of wood: You can define the shape, form, texture and so on of the wood, but never the hole itself ...
2. In my reality, you don't need to get to any other shore to become enlightened. Or to put it in another way: we all are on both shores already.
Which I translate into: "To eat the cake, and to have it too ..."
You would be the first one in man's history succeding in this - I wish you good luck! (And I don't mean it ironically)
I remember Osho saying, pointing in the same direction (quoted as I remember):
"God and you as an ego cannot coexist:
Either you are, then God is not,
or God is and you are not ..."
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