"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
32 comments:
It's the individual's thinking about the tribe that overwhelms him, not the tribe.
what did bob marley sing . . . .
"emancipate yourself from mental slavery / nobody but yourself can free your mind."
Laurie
"It's the individual's thinking about the tribe that overwhelms him, not the tribe."
... Sure, but only to the degree that this is true about everything. Ultimately the whole universe is under your command, but until then you have to use some effort to keep control of your own life instead of yielding to ideas and wishes of family, friends, lovers, government, etc.
Ah, a Nietzsche quote. This blog can't be all bad then. :-)
Yes, I have tried it, and often feel lonely, but I will continue, as ... no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Eolake,
This is off the subject but I hope you can explain a term I have heard before, "Spagetti Westerns." Why are they called this? I'm being serious. Thanks,
On-Line Paro
But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
As long as Pride is kept in check.
on-line paro said: "... term I have heard before, "Spagetti Westerns." Why are they called this?"
Try Wikipedia.
Not in Kansas anymore
I take it Eolake that was from the Wizard of Oz? It's a classic you know.
"emancipate yourself from mental slavery / nobody but yourself can free your mind."
Actually Christ can free your mind if you let him.
ttl said...
on-line paro said: "... term I have heard before, "Spagetti Westerns." Why are they called this?"
Try Wikipedia.
Thank you ttl. Appreciate the site. I understand now. I was always curious. I'm must book mark this place.
:) That was nice of you!
to keep control of your own life instead of yielding to ideas and wishes of family, friends, lovers, government, etc.
Very well put Eolake.
what did bob marley sing . . . .
Was he that drum player from that fifties group the great pretenders? Is he still around?
mr. nobody,
I have, I want to, and I will let Him.
laurie
Mr. N, Yes I know, I made a post about it not so long ago, try a Search.
eolake said...
Mr. N, Yes I know, I made a post about it not so long ago, try a Search.
Do you mean search your old posts?
Thanks
signalroom said...
mr. nobody,
I have, I want to, and I will let Him.
laurie
That's wonderful.
Yes, exactly. (There is a search field on upper left.)
I must say that reading the post now, I feel it is rather grumpy about the film, sorry. I really do respect it for the classic it is, and the great quotes it has given us. "Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain!" Priceless allegory.
I have deleted a couple of posts today which were completely off-topic.
They were political editorials. I actually agreed with them, but this is not a political bulletin board, so please guys, ease off on that, OK? I recommend you go to bulletin boards on newspapers' web sites to spread your viewpoints, you will do much more good there than here.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I guess you didn't like the true article I just sent you about the American GI's who were convicted of murder.
These soldiers were overwhelmed by the "American" tribe and committed homicide. They could have owned themselves but they didn't.
Yet you deleted it? Guess I don't understand your reasoning behind that?
Even the military has rules of conduct but yet owning your own self by denying an order can get you into trouble. The article I thought was a good example in response to your post. I guess not.
Did you even compare the connections Eolake?
OK, re-reading it, I see a connection now. I post it below.
I guess I was a little quick because there has been so many off-topic postings recently which were about Bush and Iraq, and I am sick and tired of those topics.
eolake
Here is your post:
=====
Soldier admits murdering Irai Detainee.
EVEN IN THE MILITARY ONE NEEDS TO FREE HIS MIND!
FORT CAMPBELL, Ky. - A 101st Airborne Division soldier was sentenced Thursday to 18 years in prison for murdering a detainee and taking part in the killings of two others in Iraq last year.
Pfc. Corey R. Clagett, 22, was one of four soldiers from the division's 3rd Brigade "Rakkasans" who were accused in the detainees' deaths during a May 9 raid on the Muthana chemical complex in Samarra, about 60 miles north of Baghdad.
In an agreement with prosecutors, Clagett, of Moncks Corner, S.C., pleaded guilty to charges of murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to commit murder and conspiracy to obstruct justice. Prosecutors dropped a second obstruction charge and charges of disrespecting an officer and threatening.
The soldiers first told investigators they shot the detainees because they were attempting to flee _ a story they now say they made up _ and that commanders had given them orders to kill all military-age males on the mission.
Two of those soldiers, Spc. William B. Hunsaker and Spc. Juston R. Graber, have changed their stories and pleaded guilty. The squad leader, Staff Sgt. Raymond Girouard, is awaiting his court-martial.
"(Sgt. Girouard) said we were going to cut the zip ties loose and kill the detainees," Clagett told the military judge, Col. Theodore Dixon, on Thursday. "I knew it was an unlawful order. I just went along with it."
Prosecutors said Clagett fatally shot one detainee and seriously wounded another. Official say Graber then killed the wounded detainee, and Hunsaker killed the third.
The judge asked Clagett what his intention was when he shot at the detainees.
"To kill them, your honor," Clagett said.
Clagett's lawyer, Paul Bergrin, has insisted Clagett was following orders, but sought the plea agreement after Hunsaker, 24, told a military judge that Clagett helped him shoot the detainees.
Clagett will also be demoted to private and dishonorably discharged. If he does not cooperate with prosecutors, he could be sentenced to life in prison with a chance at parole.
Military prosecutors would not discuss the case.
They were political editorials. I actually agreed with them, but this is not a political bulletin board, so please guys, ease off on that, OK?
As you wish Eolake. I don't understand something though? Some had made mention of Bush in connection with many of your posts and you permitted those. Especially Dr. Pascal and his stories of working in the hospital and such and about the ongoing war his country faces. Seems a little one-sided huh?
What I sent wasn't to be political, sorry you felt that it was. I will respectfully remove myself from your blog. I didn't mean any harm. Good day.
eolake said...
OK, re-reading it, I see a connection now. I post it below.
I guess I was a little quick because there has been so many off-topic postings recently which were about Bush and Iraq, and I am sick and tired of those topics.
eolake
Thank you Eolake.
I don't care much who writes something. I have also deleted Pascal's posts once or twice.
I really delete very few posts altogether.
It it not an easy call to decide what is nice and what's relevant, I just do my best.
It it not an easy call to decide what is nice and what's relevant, I just do my best.
I understand Eolake. Thank you for you honesty. Actually I'm tired of the Bush/Iraq war as well.
I think you do a great job on your blog, that's why I enjoy reading and responding to your interesting topics.
Have a great day. Please note also that I really enjoy your photography as well :)
Nietzsche was a nihilist, arguing for the reality of no-self, no-god. During his life he was very influential -- he invented the anti-philosophy. He was completely cold emotionally his whole life, until the very end. He was older, he had a stroke, and one day he saw a horse drop dead from sheer exhaustion and abuse. He held onto the horse and just sobbed. He was never the same since the then. He died soon after.
A lot of people thought Nietzsche was mad -- they put him in a mental hospital. I think he had some kind of enlightenment experience from his breakdown.
Laurie
mr. nobody said...
"Actually Christ can free your mind if you let him."
Even then, you can't do without the personal work. You need to make an effort and dare think for yourself. Christ isn't meant to constantly hold us by the hand like little irresponsible children.
reporter cupp said...
"Even the military has rules of conduct but yet owning your own self by denying an order can get you into trouble."
In France, it is called "the duty to disobey". And *normally* the law protects you. That is, in a *real* country. France today does try hard to uphold those principles, from the news I follow.
During the invasion of Russia, Nazi commanders were instructed to execute all Soviet Party's representatives (the "People's Commissioners") along the way. Many said : "Not me. If the Fuhrer wants these people killed, let him come and do it himself!"
"Just following the orders" is not an excuse: it's a justification. It's what people say when they don't want to admit they were somehow okay with doing it anyway. There are no easy choices when your tribe's acting wrong. But you must choose : follow the pack, or your soul's voice.
I've got a problem specifically with the current US administration, in that I have yet to see more than scapegoats and underlings be prosecuted. These definitely aren't the «American tribe»'s best and proudest days. But I feel the wind is turning already.
Reporter Cupp,
I understand you about "Dr. Pascal and his stories". Some of these stories I really would have preferred to keep to myself, had I not been forced to defend myself against repeated gratuitous slander. Especially since whatever I could say seemed to matter little to some folks. :-(
I'm tired and very bored of such bickering. I just hope this unpleasant period is definitely over and we can get back to fruitful, relevant and less personal discussions. Is it allright between us then?
"A lot of people thought Nietzsche was mad"
We all are, in a way. It's just a matter of degree, really. When the intensity of some personnality traits becomes too great to keep fuctioning socially, then it becomes "official" and something "needs" to be done about it.
Is it allright between us then?
Dr. Pascal,
I did not mean anything bad by mentioning your name, only in reference to Bush and company, that's all. I'm by no means bickering about you per say, please understand this.
I have nothing agaisn't you nor for you. I don't even know you sir.
My comment was strickly in reference about wars and things as such. Okay?
I find your posts quite interesting actually. It's just that Eolake said he was sick and tired of Bush/Iraq war and deleted my post which was in reference to his thoughts about owning yourself.
I simply used your thoughts as an example. I apologize if you misunderstood my intentions. Please understand this?
You are most welcome to continue dialoge about all your vast experience in and about your life and country. Okay?
Thank you :)
Reporter Cupp,
I'll take this as a yes then. :-)
We're fine.
Ah, how I love to see some peace in the world!
Pascal said...
Reporter Cupp,
I'll take this as a yes then. :-)
We're fine.
We were never at odds Pascal? lol.
Yes. We are okay! Geesh! :) :)
Adjust your undies (Smiles)
"Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain!"
Even if he's controling the puppets of war? (I know what you really mean Eolake) It's a good allegory.
I must say that reading the post now, I feel it is rather grumpy about the film, sorry. I really do respect it for the classic it is, and the great quotes it has given us.
It's fine. We all have our days. I couldn't find the post. Still looking. Got any idea in what month you wrote it Mr Stobblehouse? Thanks.
7 Oct, 2006.
http://eolake.blogspot.com/2006/10/wizard-of-oz.html
reporter cupp said...
"Adjust your undies"
Aah, so THAT was it then! I knew I was somehow feeling uncomfy for some mysterious reason.
Thanks for the tip. :-D
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