Anna had some interesting comments to the post Romance:
Maybe the same difference as the one between dreaming of a car and owning a car ? Or any other thing one wants to reach or own in this life ?
***
After I separated from the first boyfriend with whom I had this kind of relationship, I was wondering how it will be possible ever to do the same thing with somebody else.
Later I realized it is totally different with each person.
***
It is funny, if I read the word "romance", I don't think sex. It is well, spending time together in a romantic atmosphere...
***
We experience the world through our cognitive system, our brain. There is maybe not much difference between giving sexual input through 3 dimensional or 2 dimensional women.
With a 3 dimensional, you get a lot of optional *benefits*, like eating together, laughing together, expressing and getting tenderness. But if these are not important or if a person gets these from other sources, 2D women are quite a good option. :-)
Especially with an overpopulated planet...
---
I think the 'car' comment is insightful. Virtually all of us think and feel that human accomplishments and possessions will make us happy. And when we reach the summit of one of them, and still are not really happy, then we immediately turn to the next one, surely this must be it.
... Ah, yes, "romance", what does it mean? I have decided for myself, perhaps cynically, that at its heart it really means "sex". Sure, it's a lot more than that, but really, if there is no sex involved or at least hoped for, is it romance? I don't think so, then it's friendship.
I once wrote an apparently sweet story named A tale of Two Kingdoms, a comedic romance of a prince and a princess. Only few people ever remarked on the fact that the prince only fell In Love with the princess after he had seen her nude and had started lusting after her.
We like to think that there is this elevated thing called Love which is separate from sexual feelings. And there is, but then it's not really Romantic Love, but Brotherly Love, or Friendship Love, or Universal Love, or Love for one's Work, or one of the many other kinds.
I'm glad to hear somebody else say that "2D women" can be a good option. I think it's generally supposed that a romantic relationship is one of the things you must have in your life, or else it's incomplete. But like Anna points out, the (highly valuable) things you get beyond sex in a romantic relationship is simply the same things you get from friendship. Perhaps with one important exception: physical touch.
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(Anna also posted a nice and pithy longer comment under Romance about her grandmother who was anti-social until late in her life and then changed.)
Thanks for liking my post ! :-)
ReplyDeleteFor physical touch
- There are probably people who don't need it. (I have at least one friend who is kind of allergic to being touched at all.)
- Otherwise you can get a pet. Usually a cat.
:-)
Someone once said that you don't make a pet of a cat - it makes a pet of you.
ReplyDeleteThere are probably people who don't need it.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience a loving touch (I don't mean it sexually) is a deep nourishment for body and soul, for everybody, women as well as men. I have not come across any exception in many years of bodywork.
And it is "essential food". Just look at children what happens with them, when they are not enough touched in the right way.
(BTW there is a basic need to just cuddle up together to get this "food", but many men think they don't need it saying something like "a real man needs only sex!", in the same way as they often say "a real man doesn't cry!" - in both cases I feel sorry for them, they don't know what they are missing.)
I have at least one friend who is kind of allergic to being touched at all.
Oh, yes. THIS I have come across quite often, in very different degrees of being allergic. But it had in EVERY case a deeper reason of some kind of being abused in the past. Probably caused by these "real men".
(In my experience about 90% of all women I have worked with had experienced more or less abuse - that's a bit scaring up, but maybe not representative, at least they were women looking for some professional help.)
Maybe your friend is REALLY an exception, but that's not my experience, in no single case. Just to give one extreme example:
Many years ago I was working with a woman in her early twenties. I was not allowed to touch her in any way, so I started without touching. After some time I was allowed to touch her head only, so I continued with some soft craniosacral balancing work.
A few sessions later it became more and more clear that she was raped cruelly about ten years before, a literally very bloody experience she survived only with much luck. And at the beginning she didn't even remember that! (A well known phenomenon for bodyworkers working in the psychosomatic area, that traumatic experiences are totally suppressed into unconsciousness as a help for survival and living.)
After about one year of working together she had processed (it was hard for her, as you may imagine) and released this traumatic experience and gained enough trust being touched by me, so that I was allowed to give her a full body massage, she was even naked.
To counterbalance possible sleazy comments: It was of course an experience of innocent erotic beauty, but not "sexual". Otherwise the trust would have been destroyed again. One has to know and to respect the actual limits.
A kind of Happy End: She found soon a sensitive guy, they married and have a beautiful daughter. I'm still in contact with them. And I'm lucky and very much rewarded having seen her coming into bloom on her way into life, "with a little help from a friend".
:-)
Thanks for the story, Neeraj. What kind of work ar you doing ? :-)
ReplyDeleteFor my friend whom I told about being allergic to touch, he is incredibly LISTENING to the people around, paying attention at a level I have maybe never met before either. It seems to me it is a kind of balance : if he was listening that much AND communicating through touch with people, that would definitively be too much. :-)
I'm sort of allergic to touch myself. From anything. I don't wear watches, for example.
ReplyDeleteI'm hyper-perceptive. All senses are super-loud to me.
What kind of work ar you doing ?
ReplyDeleteIt's a personal mix of all what I've learned over many years, containing elements e.g. from energy work or Chi Kung/healing movements, breathing, talking/NLP, Holistic Massage (which means many different 'styles' of massage), Craniosacral Balancing. Furthermore I'm using several 'active meditations' as introduced by Osho. (This list is not complete.) Like a big buffet with very different ingredients I'm taking from, whatever seems nourishing/appropriate for the actual situation with a client.
When I'm allowed to touch I'm concentrating mostly on Holistic Massage and Craniosacral Balancing, because the 'language of touch' is in my experience a very good basis for a trustful, intimate and honest communication, opening many doors otherwise closed.
(About Craniosacral Balancing you may have read my looooong comments at http://eolake.blogspot.com/2009/09/eye-tracking-issues-and-learning.html ;-)
In my feeling it's much more important HOW I'm doing than WHAT I'm doing. Giving my loving attention, being present and nonjudging, respecting the limits and injuries somebody brings with her/him are important guide lines. I see myself as a 'facilitator' for psychosomatic and maybe spiritual processes, not as a mechanician for fixing a biomechanical human machine (sometimes exceptions). Generally I try to create a 'protected space' where deep relaxation and trust can happen. Basically a big YES to that which is and 'go with the flow', as far as I can sense it. In my understanding that's the heart of Tantra concerning all areas of life, so I call my kind of work 'Tantric Bodywork'.
(That's also a certain intentional provocation for people who mistake Tantra for sex, but if they are interested and 'open', they can ask me about that. Otherwise I'm protected from 'nonopen' people. Of course, 'the dynamics of the cosmic web', which is roughly the literal meaning of the word 'Tantra', is based on the polarity of female and male energies, forming 'Leela' = the erotic play of nature in all phenomena of life, but that's much more than sex.)
So, I never force or push anything (except I'm eplicitly allowed to do so in some situations where I feel it might be helpful, but then I ask for it before), but try at the same time to encourage to find out as honestly as possible the actual limits and to accept them, to take responsibility and (when enough trust is gained) to go one or more steps beyond, supported by me, if needed for some time. To take life as a precious opportunity to discover who and what we are really. How we look at our life, how we interpret it, and that we can change our view on it. To play like a child and to find new possibilities, to enjoy it and to laugh, or to cry, or to go into deep silence. Basically it's all allowed (MY limits are wide), so one can relax into oneself. 'Bodywork' is not just 'work', it's playful, too.
Just a few insightful quotes:
"We are disturbed not by events,
but by the view we take of them."
(Epictetus)
"Our picture of the world is (and will always be) a construct of the mind."
(Erwin Schrödinger)
"I said to Life: 'I would like to hear Death speak.'
And Life raised her voice a little higher and said: 'You hear him now.'"
(Khalil Gibran)
... snip ...
... snap ...
ReplyDeleteFor my friend whom I told about ... if he was listening that much AND communicating through touch with people, that would definitively be too much.
Sounds for me like he is VERY sensitive - a great gift, but needs also protection from overload. THAT I can understand: I remember that in my twenties I was 'allergic' to 'energy sucking' people, and there are many ... once, being together with someone of that kind in the same room, after about half an hour I started even vomiting, because I couldn't stand it. So, I preferred very much to be alone, or have taken care with whom I was together or whom I was touching.
So, I have to correct it: It's too much simplified to say that to be 'allergic' is often a result of some kind of abuse, that was especially my experience with (mostly) women I've worked with, who were looking for some coaching.
As far as I can see there are basically two possible oppositional strategies to deal with too high sensitivity of any kind: You can make a wall of protection around it, or you can try to learn to let the input pass through you without affecting you, to become more and more 'permeable'. If possible. (Doesn't mean to feel less than before.) At least for me it was possible to change a lot by meditation (mostly connected with bodywork), becoming more centered and, yes, more permeable - otherwise I couldn't give these sessions ... but it has taken some time and dedication.
I don't wear watches ...
Me, too. No rings on ear or finger, no watch. Clothes as comfortable as possible, of course clean, but how it looks according to actual fashions is not important for me. The only thing are my glasses, but only if really needed (e.g. for car driving).
P.S.: For some time it was not possible for me to post a comment, neither Opera nor Firefox worked - I've always got the error code "bX-p43cdf", whatever that means. Looking into Blogger support I've seen that I was not the only one having this problem. It seems Google is again tinkering around with its Blogger software ...
Thanks for the long answer, neeraj ! :-) Inspiring.
ReplyDelete***
Can't wear watch either. Nor ring.
"It was nice to see that somebody can change even with 76. That was a nice gift."
ReplyDeleteYes, "as long as there is life, there is hope".
This is incredibly moving, because otherwise she would have died bitter and lonely, but this miracle happened.
Some of the greatest miracles are invisible to the masses, you've got to "go there" and look for yourself to see them.
"Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these." [Matthew 6, 28-29]
"Otherwise you can get a pet. Usually a cat."
Mine is allerging to NOT being sufficiently touched and cuddled. :-)
Our meeting made the two of us very happy.
True, the thought complexity of an animal is nothing comparable to humans. But emotions can be just as intense, and valuable. My cat gives me all the love he's got, so I treat him the same. Fair is fair.
As one Jesus of N. might have said: "There is no such thing as small Love".
I don't know whether your grandma is in any way a "religious" person, Anna, but it doesn't matter: what she has encountered is called by christians Redemption. And it's absolutely unnecessary to say prayers or go to church for it to be worthy and invaluable.
"The only sin is absence of Love", I always say. And as one dude used to say to people like your Grandma: "Your faith has saved you, your sins are forgiven."
Again, there is no need to follow the official religious Establishment for the full worth of this to be. Because it's something universal. Love transcends all petty boundaries of religions or confessions. Or even species, for that matter.
Even when I swat a mosquito, it's purely for practical convenience reasons. I feel no hate for any living being.
But I might hesitate between despising and pitying those who spread hate.
"I don't see a problem if a person looks at pictures instead of having a girlfriend. Especially with an overpopulated planet."
And especially with the millions of women in India and China who today are not born or do not live. A major crisis is brewing...
Think the UN would be interested in a Domai-spreading program there? ;-)
"Just hoping that the computer with the pictures will not start trembling... :-)"
Try oiling the fan's axle, this is where the trembling usually comes from...
"Sorry for the pascalish length"
Hey, Mom, look! I'm in the Dictionary now! [proud]
Darn, now where did I put that golden trumpet of mine?
"Someone once said that you don't make a pet of a cat - it makes a pet of you."
Words of knowledge... :-)
"In my experience a loving touch is a deep nourishment for body and soul"
Once, as a kid I read about an American woman's research. It said that "people absolutely need hugs for their well-being. At least 4 hugs a day to survive emotionally. 8 hugs for emotional conservation. 12 daily hugs to thrive."
After that, when I wanted a hug from my Mom, I used to say to her at the same time: "for survival". It became sort of a fond code between us. :-)
"And it is "essential food". Just look at children what happens with them"
Children know. And, fortunately for the rest of us too, they readily express their "appetite" at any given chance! :-)
[insert commercial break here]
[SMASH!]
ReplyDeleteOops!
"It wasn't me!"
["We now return with the Transformers"]
ReplyDelete"a real man needs only sex!"
Then, forgive me for saying this, but "real men are just dicks"!
Pun intended.
in the same way as they often say "a real man doesn't cry!"
I guess this means a real man never uses a hammer, because hitting his thumb would shatter his manliness. :-P
"I have at least one friend who is kind of allergic to being touched at all.
Oh, yes. THIS I have come across quite often, in very different degrees of being allergic. But it had in EVERY case a deeper reason of some kind of being abused in the past."
There can be all sorts of abuse. Including very subtle ones.
I know children who are allergic to hugs which they didn't initiate themselves. Turns out some of their family members turn such displays of affection with these children into self-gratification acts: they do it for themselves, selfishly, refusing to ever notice when the child is sometimes just not in the mood. Over time, it has a significant effect.
In a symbolic way, Freud would say this isn't technically different from rape, or in that case symbolic incest: these adults force gestures of "love expression" and therefore teach the children to dislike them.
Another very weird thing worth mentioning: here in Lebanon, there is a saying that "you always love your grandchildren far more than you do your children". Alas, it IS true in the mentalities.
Not that grandparents always become people who have learned to "love better".
It is all about that eternal misconception that views love as possessiveness. Real love is not about selfishly taking (or sexually coveting), it's about generously giving. If this sincere love is reciprocated, then you'll see it come back at you, you'll receive the same spontaneous generosity in return. And everyone will be happy.
Otherwise, as in this highly Freudian Middle East, everyone will be more or less abnormal, and therefore automatically unhappy.
Like Anna's grandmother in the past. She thought she was very happy NOT interacting with people. Then one day the eye flaps fell, and it was the discovery of a boundless new world. That woman was one of the lucky ones. She UNDERSTOOD during the span of her earthly life. Looks like she had a lot of potential wisdom within. This is so rare... :-(
"they don't know what they are missing"
True, they live in such ignorance. But somewhere, deep down, something in them FEELS it nevertheless.
A great void always causes an echo...
("Even the airless cosmic void?" Yes. It's called the cosmic background static. And it is absolutely everywhere. As if a constant memory of our painful separation from God in the Beginning...)
Eolake said...
"I'm sort of allergic to touch myself."
Ah, it's perfectly okay to touch yourself! ;o)
Seems like you have some "touchy" ;-) issues still unsolved?
Think about it...
You're big enough to know the most appropriate way fitting you to softly work on this, in the manner of Neraj's lady patient.
Not that I'm suggesting you go get naked massages from Neeraj, but hey, after all, why not? ;-)
"Like a big buffet with very different ingredients I'm taking from"
It's called a smorgasbord. I bet Eolake knows the word well. (Or is it Swedish?)
[This is all making me hungry for a snak. Be right back.]
[Left, front and center. HUT! HUT!]
ReplyDelete"(About Craniosacral Balancing you may have read my looooong comments at http://eolake.blogspot.com/2009/09/eye-tracking-issues-and-learning.html ;-)"
Yeah. But still, it's always Pascal who gets mentioned as an example for the world to behold! ;-)
Life's a bit unfair sometimes isn't it? There, there. You can cry on my shoulder if it makes you feel any better.
If it's any comfort, yes I'm at the top of my category, but it can get lonely up there.
"That's also a certain intentional provocation for people who mistake Tantra for sex"
This is because most people actually have some very real problems with sex!
Otherwise, mentions of sex would be as commonplace and harmless as those about eating. As they SHOULD be in an ideally balanced society.
"the erotic play of nature in all phenomena of life, but that's much more than sex"
Precisely what I meant. How frightening to see the extreme worldwide indoctrination that attempts to "abnormalize" sex. While it is only people who really have abnormal sex attitudes. Mistaking the cause and the medium... so typically convenient, isn't it? :-(
"Sounds for me like he is VERY sensitive - a great gift, but needs also protection from overload."
Ah, yes, that's also a possibility. My previous cat used to become instantly aggressive if I whistled in any manner, or played even a single note on the harmonica. VERY explicit threatening: "Stop this right now, OR ELSE!"
I never really understood WHAT exactly bothered him so intensely, but I respected his effort to express his discomfort, and so I abstained.
Reminds me of the use of loud Britney Spears in Guantanamo... ;-)
But unlike the musical tastes of Talibans, hypersensitivity which in reality is hyper-perceptiveness could and should be turned into the rare gift that it is, and used if possible.
"I don't wear watches"
Me, I wear just one. ;-)
I never quite understood the appeal of getting your body pierced and fit with metal bits in dozens of places...
"The only thing are my glasses, but only if really needed"
Technically, eyeglasses are the world's most common prosthesis. It's quite natural to wear them, if it helps the proper function of your vision.
My current ones have a thin titanium rim, because I found out that "rimless" glasses impose fixtures inside the border of the lenses, which is LESS discrete. My rim is both very fine, and extremely lightweight (that's the swell advantage of titanium!). As a result, these are the lightest I've ever worn. Any lighter than that, and they wouldn't hold properly in place!
Necessary, functional, discrete. They don't have to be "gangsta rapper bling" either, yo!
"It seems Google is again tinkering around with its Blogger software"
Time to ring the alarm tinker bell. Right, Captain Codfish?
COCK-A-DOODLE-DOO!
[No, no, stop scrolling down, I'm done for today.]
Our meeting made the two of us very happy.
ReplyDeleteMe, too. About twelve years I was living together with a cat, or maybe better to say he condescended to live together with me (mankind seems to me sometimes divided into 'cat people' and 'dog people' - I belong clearly to the first category, maybe that was the reason). He was one of my spiritual masters, I learned from him a lot about love, grace and beauty, let-go and relax ... :-) And I was with him, when he died.
There can be all sorts of abuse. Including very subtle ones.
Yes, I know, and I've meant them to be included, but didn't mention it explicitly.
In a symbolic way, Freud would say this isn't technically different from rape
I think of it literally: Whenever somebody is 'functionalized', degraded to a mere object of egoistic desires without any loving communication, it is kind of 'being raped', may it be on the spiritual level by being indoctrinated with a belief system, on the psychological level by being blackmailed or by just 'being used', or 'only' on the body level. All this happens everywhere, mostly unconscious and even 'in the name of love', and would not be there with a REALLY loving communication between living beings :-(
(... humming the beautiful song "And love will lead us on" by Premal/Miten, in Reggae style.)
A great void always causes an echo...
... and demands to be filled, by whatever - if not by something really nourishing, then even by junk food, but the latter never satisfies.
("Even the airless cosmic void?" Yes. It's called the cosmic background static. And it is absolutely everywhere. As if a constant memory of our painful separation from God in the Beginning...)
Here one can easily start philosophizing about 'the cosmic background static' as being (beyond time and space) connected somehow with 'nonlocal hidden variables' in quantum mechanics, and/or with the 'noosphere' (Teilhard de Chardin) or other ideas about 'cosmic consciousness', and/or with the summarized 'morphogenetic fields' (Rupert Sheldrake), or maybe you have heard about 'Global Scaling' (not easy to describe in a few words: a logarithmic fractal structure of ALL numbers/data we are measuring in nature/universe because of a natural oscillation of the vacuum as a standing wave - facts not well known, but VERY fascinating) - again a whole web of connections between modern science and old spiritual wisdom ... sometimes I like these mind games about 'gaining insight' very much, and sometimes I feel: "Oh well, just thoughts ;-)"
If it's any comfort, ...
When I need it, ...
... yes I'm at the top of my category, but it can get lonely up there.
... maybe I'm allowed to visit you there from time to time ;-)