Hmm, interesting debate. I was tempted to chip in over there with some comment on how Bradbury (via Fahrenheit 451) shows how a world of pleasure seekers as in Brave New World were the cause of the book burning censorship of 451, the censorship initially being perceived as the result of an Orwellian dictatorship.
I'd also like to point out that Huxley's BNW is a stepping stone to the Eloy culture in The Time Machine.
Either way round, I've got a touch of the dooms coming on today.
I tend to agree with Pascal, but our society really needs better bullshit filters. Far too much fiction is becoming fact simply from constant repetition.
I'd also like to point out that Huxley's BNW is a stepping stone to the Eloy culture in The Time Machine.
What about the Morlocks?
I was reading an article yesterday while waiting in my optometrist's office about how dictatorships have made a huge comeback and how countries like China and Russia have managed to merge repressive political regimes with economic prosperity. They've found that people making money don't complain.
A little Orwell, a little Huxley, and what the hell a little Bradbury* thrown in for good measure.
*Probably my favorite of the three anyway, although it's a close call. We're getting pretty close to the three-wall TVs he talked about.
What about the Morlocks?Through the Bokanovsky Process, I didn't see a Morlock. I couldn't see Morlocks coming from the "savages" either.
Bradbury; probably my favorite of the three anyway, although it's a close call.I think I'd agree.
We're getting pretty close to the three-wall TVs .
Don't forget Worlds Of Warcraft and other MMOGs are akin to "what do you think Mrs Montag".
The shells are iPods (transister radios etc).
And if you look at British cities you see EMT's set out at field hospitals on Friday night, predominantly for the stomach pumps, but also for the cuts and grazes.
If you look at the list of challenged books, you'll also see the censorship theory was right.
One thing I didn't see in F451 was this inane constant communication we have. Bradburys world was full of advertising messages and TVs, but I don't remember prevalent cellphones etc.
I used to think the walls were a good idea, but only to be used as often as going the cinema, that is a few times a month.
Who was it reminded us about Feelies and Orgy Porgy? It made me think about the enhanced version of THX 1138 where they added a masturbation machine while THX is watching the "erotic" dancer. I think the feelies seem like a better option - strike that theremin...
I'd also like to point out that Huxley's BNW is a stepping stone to the Eloy culture in The Time Machine.
I'm not sure about Wells' Eloi. Even if humans stopped thinking for themselves, and stopped having to work, or really do anything except have fun, they are not going "devolve" into the Eloi even over millions of years.
It's nice to know there are some Alexs and Pascals out there to balance out the gross idiocy of someone like Eric.
You get people like that from time to time but they don't usually stay long.
I've got fifteen bucks, eight to one, saying Orwel lasts five full rounds. GO GET 'IM, GEORGE!!!
The grudge match of the century!
I used to think the walls were a good idea, but only to be used as often as going the cinema, that is a few times a month.
Going to the cinema is such a drag these days I haven't been in a long time. Overpriced, there's the armrest situation, people talking, people coming in late, etc., etc. If we had the kind of TVs in F451 then it would take some people a lot of willpower to only use it a few times a month. I think I could do it. The trick partly is to not put it in your living room. My TV is down in a little room in the basement. I don't have satellite or cable and just use as you say - a few times a month.
I think I peaked at 5 cinema outings a week back in '91. Those were fun days.
My walls were going to be in a converted barn in the grounds of my house. My current house is not as big as the barn I'd like, and the grounds are so small I can't add the barn.
Pascal and I have been here a couple of years now I believe. Somehow I've never been flamed, and Pascal keeps flaming himself?
Maybe the Eloi will never exist, but I can see the chance for such devolution. If we look at Von Harbou alongsinde Huxley we see that the life of leisure was for the elite. Huxley at least gave his elite knowledge of the lower echelons, and denied his proles the wit to know their masters (Bokanovsky Process, or Rossum production, what's the difference?). They seemed aware of what was happening. As for Von Harbou's elite, the Sons never knew their place, and lived for pleasure. The proles there were subjugated rather than "spliced" for their role.
I can see the situation Freder and his fellows were put in could be the seeds of an Eloi. The Morlock harvesting seems a bizarre twist, but if taken less literally, could make some interesting metaphors. Maybe the Eloi are royalty, and the morlock consumption of them is merely a reflection of pro royalist feeling and national pride, being a component of Britain through 'til the advent of Paparazzi. The proles were fed on/with royalist sentiment. I've seen, many times in fiction, that such a feeding may become literal taking flesh to feed the same basic need.
Hmm, interesting debate. I was tempted to chip in over there with some comment on how Bradbury (via Fahrenheit 451) shows how a world of pleasure seekers as in Brave New World were the cause of the book burning censorship of 451, the censorship initially being perceived as the result of an Orwellian dictatorship.
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to point out that Huxley's BNW is a stepping stone to the Eloy culture in The Time Machine.
Either way round, I've got a touch of the dooms coming on today.
Ah well, the Dooms have been coming and going since the stone age, might as well get used to them.
ReplyDeleteI've got fifteen bucks, eight to one, saying Orwel lasts five full rounds. GO GET 'IM, GEORGE!!!
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with Pascal, but our society really needs better bullshit filters. Far too much fiction is becoming fact simply from constant repetition.
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to point out that Huxley's BNW is a stepping stone to the Eloy culture in The Time Machine.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the Morlocks?
I was reading an article yesterday while waiting in my optometrist's office about how dictatorships have made a huge comeback and how countries like China and Russia have managed to merge repressive political regimes with economic prosperity. They've found that people making money don't complain.
A little Orwell, a little Huxley, and what the hell a little Bradbury* thrown in for good measure.
*Probably my favorite of the three anyway, although it's a close call. We're getting pretty close to the three-wall TVs he talked about.
What about the Morlocks?Through the Bokanovsky Process, I didn't see a Morlock. I couldn't see Morlocks coming from the "savages" either.
ReplyDeleteBradbury; probably my favorite of the three anyway, although it's a close call.I think I'd agree.
We're getting pretty close to the three-wall TVs .
Don't forget Worlds Of Warcraft and other MMOGs are akin to "what do you think Mrs Montag".
The shells are iPods (transister radios etc).
And if you look at British cities you see EMT's set out at field hospitals on Friday night, predominantly for the stomach pumps, but also for the cuts and grazes.
If you look at the list of challenged books, you'll also see the censorship theory was right.
One thing I didn't see in F451 was this inane constant communication we have. Bradburys world was full of advertising messages and TVs, but I don't remember prevalent cellphones etc.
I used to think the walls were a good idea, but only to be used as often as going the cinema, that is a few times a month.
Who was it reminded us about Feelies and Orgy Porgy? It made me think about the enhanced version of THX 1138 where they added a masturbation machine while THX is watching the "erotic" dancer. I think the feelies seem like a better option - strike that theremin...
It's nice to know there are some Alexs and Pascals out there to balance out the gross idiocy of someone like Eric.
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to point out that Huxley's BNW is a stepping stone to the Eloy culture in The Time Machine.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure about Wells' Eloi. Even if humans stopped thinking for themselves, and stopped having to work, or really do anything except have fun, they are not going "devolve" into the Eloi even over millions of years.
It's nice to know there are some Alexs and Pascals out there to balance out the gross idiocy of someone like Eric.
You get people like that from time to time but they don't usually stay long.
I've got fifteen bucks, eight to one, saying Orwel lasts five full rounds. GO GET 'IM, GEORGE!!!
The grudge match of the century!
I used to think the walls were a good idea, but only to be used as often as going the cinema, that is a few times a month.
Going to the cinema is such a drag these days I haven't been in a long time. Overpriced, there's the armrest situation, people talking, people coming in late, etc., etc. If we had the kind of TVs in F451 then it would take some people a lot of willpower to only use it a few times a month. I think I could do it. The trick partly is to not put it in your living room. My TV is down in a little room in the basement. I don't have satellite or cable and just use as you say - a few times a month.
I think I peaked at 5 cinema outings a week back in '91. Those were fun days.
ReplyDeleteMy walls were going to be in a converted barn in the grounds of my house. My current house is not as big as the barn I'd like, and the grounds are so small I can't add the barn.
Pascal and I have been here a couple of years now I believe. Somehow I've never been flamed, and Pascal keeps flaming himself?
Maybe the Eloi will never exist, but I can see the chance for such devolution. If we look at Von Harbou alongsinde Huxley we see that the life of leisure was for the elite. Huxley at least gave his elite knowledge of the lower echelons, and denied his proles the wit to know their masters (Bokanovsky Process, or Rossum production, what's the difference?). They seemed aware of what was happening. As for Von Harbou's elite, the Sons never knew their place, and lived for pleasure. The proles there were subjugated rather than "spliced" for their role.
I can see the situation Freder and his fellows were put in could be the seeds of an Eloi. The Morlock harvesting seems a bizarre twist, but if taken less literally, could make some interesting metaphors. Maybe the Eloi are royalty, and the morlock consumption of them is merely a reflection of pro royalist feeling and national pride, being a component of Britain through 'til the advent of Paparazzi. The proles were fed on/with royalist sentiment. I've seen, many times in fiction, that such a feeding may become literal taking flesh to feed the same basic need.
Ever get the feeling you need more sleep.
Constantly.
ReplyDeleteHave you seen the English satire movie Eat The Rich? From the eighties, I think, it was outstanding.