I've just seen that here in UK, you can get 2-10 years in prison for carrying a gun visibly, even if it is just a replica or realistic toy gun!
Isn't that rather... draconian? You get two years minimum in prison, basically for scaring people? I could understand a £500 ticket or something, but...
I don't know how much of this is the same for most of Europe, but I've also seen that you apparently can't even buy pepper spray legally here. It seems to be very strict about anything weapon-like. Which is particularly odd, since anybody can go into a kitchen store and buy an 8-inch butcher knife (or an axe in a building market) which will kill a man in one second flat. Pepper spray won't do that.
I think it's akin to shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. Because we are generally unarmed in public places, I think the concern would either lead to public panic, or wasted police time in terms of calling out armed response units.
ReplyDeleteHaving read some recent scary information about the US, here http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check, and here http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html
Just too scary! We were supposed to have a family trip to the Sates in May, but we've cancelled. My husband will go, but not me and the children - I just don't feel safe there. :-(
I was asked for ID in the UK when trying to buy a tiny kitchen knife ...
ReplyDeleteReally? Not me, I have bought kitchen knives more than once, even an axe, always just got checked out as if I'd bought oranges.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to be more difficult emotionally for people to use a knife than to use pepper spray or a gun. From what I have read, the frequency of murders and assault is significantly lower in countries that don't allow guns.
ReplyDeleteBruce, you're probably right about that. Lethal violence with your bare hands is hard. Knives, guns, drones etc are all layers of abstraction on top of this violence. Pressing a button is a lot easier than breaking someone's neck.
ReplyDeleteI feel the same way. Although Bowling For Columbine did make the point that Canadians have tons of guns, and yet the murder stats are way lower than in the states. It's all pretty confusing.
ReplyDeleteI'm not in any way defending our gun laws, but being too scared to travel to the U.S. because of gun violence stats is asinine. It would be like if I traveled to Europe and announced to everyone that I wasn't going to a soccer match because of all the reports of hooliganism.
ReplyDelete@Emptyspaces: Why is it asinine? You can travel to Europe and choose not to go to soccer matches. Is it possible for me to travel to the States but only to go to gun-free zones? When such a large portion of the population carry concealed weapons, how do I avoid ever being near someone who is carrying a firearm? If there's a way, please let me know!
ReplyDeleteAustralia has knife carrying laws, and I expect the UK does as well. The reason for the high penalties is it is assumed that someone with a gun or knife has it with the purpose of killing or injuring someone else. While there can be an argument for self-defence, experience shows that everyone seems to be better off on average without a weapon, as they tend to escalate confrontations.
ReplyDelete"The reason for the high penalties is it is assumed that someone with a gun or knife has it with the purpose of killing or injuring someone else."
ReplyDeleteNot unreasonable. But it doesn't apply with a replica gun, but you can still get 2 years in prison, it seems. I can see that it may cause a panic, but when it's harmless otherwise, I think two years in prison is very harsh. (And from what I hear, British prisons are not the cuddly places they are in some European countries.)
Just saying it's an overreaction to think you'll encounter guns on your trip to the USA. I have lived here all my life and, outside of hunting rifles locked in safes and the time I went to a skeet range, I have seen very few guns. I don't like them around, personally.
ReplyDeleteThey feel off to me too.
ReplyDeleteWell, actually my father was a hunter, got ducks often. And he had a rifle, I tried it a couple times, and I'm a good shot.
But once in my adult life on a whim I picked up a plastic, black toy gun on a lawn sale. A bit later, I walked into a church, and it felt so off that I dropped it.
No matter if for self defense or hunting (I'm not vegetarian), there's no getting around that a gun basically is for causing grave bodily harm to another warm-blooded creature.
Is it possible for me to travel to the States but only to go to gun-free zones?
ReplyDeleteYes. New York has some of the strictest carry laws and having grown up there you only ever see cops carrying them. The penalty for concealing a weapon is very stiff as well. It's not possible to guarantee a totally gun free "zone" but then you can't do that in Europe either. Plenty of people, especially in the country, own them. I know the French love to go out and shoot things. Maybe not in Paris, just as you wouldn't see too many guns in London. No one can guarantee you absolute safety in life, luckily.
So, really, the answer is "no" because you're talking about not gun free zones but limited gun use zones.
ReplyDelete"Is it possible for me to travel to the States but only to go to gun-free zones?"
ReplyDelete"how do I avoid ever being near someone who is carrying a firearm? If there's a way, please let me know!"
Avoiding firearms is not the goal. The goal is to avoid areas where firearms are used and lead to deaths of innocent bystanders. It's not too hard to figure out, just takes a little research. Napa Valley is OK, West Oakland is not. Disneyland yes, Compton no.
Can I get the UK State condemned for obscenity if I find their uptightedness and arbitrary tyranny gravely offensive to my morals?
ReplyDeletePlease do it, I'll be behind you all the way. Or until the point where I am inconvenienced or intimidated myself.
ReplyDeleteCome to Kauai, Hawaii. Unless you go hunting with a friend or guide, the only gun you will ever see is on the hip of a cop. We do not allow citizens to carry a firearm concealed. Firearms being transported must be in a rigid, locked container. It's quite safe.
ReplyDeleteThe laws are about control of the people. We have the same problem here in the USA. In England the gun ban laws (they are not about control) started after the restoration of the monarchy after the English civil war. The people in control of the State do not want the people to be able to stop them controlling every aspect of a person's life. Think about the French Revolution's Reign of Terror and what it created.
ReplyDelete"Gun Free Zones" are the most dangerous areas in the world. Those who want to steal or commit other crimes know the victims can not fight back in "Gun Free Zones". People need to learn the real history of "gun-control laws". Start with the USSR and NAZI Germany. Learn the real history folks.
ReplyDelete(sniff!) Oh, Eo, you're the bestest, most loyalest friend one could ever have. And I know you really-really mean it! You single-handedly ridicule the legends of Doc Holiday and the Sundance Kid. And Robin the Boy Wonder. And Krypto. And...
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of the original topic, how about that Pistorius affair? It would seem the person (now formerly) in charge of the investigation is himself accused of a trifle SEVEN homicide attempts. Simultaneously!
"I grew up in Pretoria, and let me tell ya, the neighborhood was so tough...
- HOW TOUGH WAS IT?
- So tough, that even the police were wanted for murder!"
R.I.P., Rodney Dangerfield (talk about an aptonym), you always made me laugh.
No, but really, I tried to maintain neutrality and reasonable doubt about that Blade Runner trial as long as I could. But it really seems like the South African police are something right out of a low-budget cop comedy.
Me, if I wrote the scenario, I would've had spring-loaded ninja knives popping out of his prostheses. With that classic Steve Austin sound effect. And shurikens shooting out of his kneecaps.
Back to serious for a millisecond, that affair tragically illustrates the feeling of constant threat in the people who live in such "high-security neighborhoods". (Cause or effect? The debate is open.)
Not that the rest of the country is any less lethal. I'd rather stay in Lebanon!
(Well, that is, until our ever-looming civil war finally re-ignites, then I'm off to Tahiti.)