It was actually something I almost wrote Thursday when editing the newsletter, but decided it was not necessary. But then I got a letter today (also added) which convinced me it was.
Update: one of the many excellent comments:
I am no longer a young man according to the calendar. At 65 my spirit seems to think I am 21.
There was a time I was unable to give a compliment to a member of the fairer sex for fear of the very thing being discussed here. Problem was I always interpreted it as personal rejection, not a normal response to genuine appreciation of beauty.
I now know both are wrong. As Eolake has pointed out the answer lies in method of delivery. A more indirect compliment is easier for American women to accept. I surmise they all want complements but are conditioned to question the authenticity of them.
A case in point. Several months ago I was standing in line at the bank waiting for a teller to be available. A young girl about 6 was playing tag or something with a young boy and as she ran under the guide rope she tripped and fell at my feet after hitting headlong into my knees. She immediately started crying and I bent and picked her up putting her on her feet. The crying continued but softened some. About this time her mother got to us and took the little girl by the hand. She told her daughter to thank the nice man for helping her up. Through soft sobs the girl said thank you. I said your welcome. Then I added you don't want to cry anymore. You are a beautiful young lady just like your mommy and crying makes funny lines on your face. That got me a slight smile and I said that's better now you are just as pretty as your mommy is. She looked up at her mother and they smiled at each other.
They returned to their place in line after "mommy" and I exchanged smiles and a little thank you was offered.
A couple weeks later standing in the same line the woman I now know as Judy left her place in line and came back to where I was. She again thanked me for my help. I told her it was the least I could do for two such lovely ladies. Her smile warmed my soul.
So now I have a friend in the bank line whenever we happen to be there at the same time.
A friendly smile and a soft compliment is something that will more often than not get at least a smile in return.
Greg
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Benjamin said, in part:
I've found that giving a compliment in the middle of a broader conversation, matter-of-fact, withough breaking stride, helps. Removing the implied expectation that she immediately respond takes away the awkward moment.
I find that very interesting. It is true that a big part of the problem for the receiver is how to respond to a compliment. "Thanks" will usually do it, but most people don't think about that, they feel pressured to join with a comment on the subject, and they can't, because the subject is themselves!
So, maybe: "I'm buying flowers for my sister. She's a beautiful woman like yourself, what do you think would be a fitting flower for a birthday present?"
...so true what you say, and what the article says!
ReplyDeleteI´ve also been doing it the soft way e/g at the checkout, and the women usually are grateful for my (sometimes hidden) compliments.
You got do do the complements very carefully though, if the subject is very young and you´re pretty old: you might be mistaken as being creepy.
But a well-balanced compliment should work in every situation (e/g a wink and a look at the spot on the woman which draws your highest appreciation).
HERE! HERE! Having traveled in Europe and spent some of my time photographing women in varying states of undress, I most heartily agree with you, Sir! A European women is very receptive to the direct compliment on her beauty/build/demeanor/etc. Try the same act in the States and you may have the manager of the establishment asking why you are harassing his employee. At times I long to return to Europe!
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work and as the fellow in the movie said - "May the Force be with you!"
Regarding MJ's experience and the subsequent email regarding complimenting Americans, allow me to comment.
ReplyDeleteIt is a national trait (although not shared by all) to distrust compliments. Maybe it derives from the Puritan influence, a vestige certainly, but Americans are taught to disregard compliments from strangers as being potentially manipulative. It is also part of the American psyche to consider thinking too highly of oneself (as unlikely as this may seem to non-Americans) as being repulsive. Last, someone who compliments you on your physical beauty (we are led to believe, anyway) may be overlooking your humanity in favor of veneer.
As someone who can't quite bring himself not to compliment beauty when he sees it, I've learned that it is best to turn the compliment around. Instead of saying, "You are a beautiful girl," I've found it easier to express how a woman's beauty makes me feel. "Being in the presence of a beautiful woman is like... walking through a field of flowers... (or) it's like hearing a classic song for the first time... (or) makes me feel happy to be alive." (Corny? Yes. But also true.) Everyone can identify with feeling. As the great dramatic writing teacher Lajos Egri once wrote, "It's what we feel that is important, not what we think."
Hello,
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the weekly e-mail update and response letter on 8/8 I wanted to offer an American point of view on this subject.
I have, since reading the weekly update and associated letter gone out into society and done just what was recommended and offered several compliments during my morning errands. At the grocery store, a shoe store and even at a local antique shop. I will have to say with 100% conviction that I agree with TP’s assessment.
For example, when at the local grocery store I asked for assistance in finding some unusual fruits (currants, which recently became legal to sell in the US which were banned due to threatening the logging industry) and upon completion of the task I complimented the lady on her appearance. The exact wording I used was “Thank you lady, and by the way, you look very stunning today”. This compliment was met VERY negatively and in fact I had to have a conversation with the security guard! The woman claimed that I was sexually harassing her and I was “politely escorted” to the checkout lane and out of the store.
This blew my mind. I couldn’t fathom how or why my comment was taken as an attempt at “sexual harassment”. Now one thing that does bother me strongly is the attitude towards compliments when given in the US. On one hand you have women who complain that they don’t receive them while on the other hand you have these types of reactions. Is it their fault? Not entirely. In the US sexuality is SO repressed you can see a movie with blood guts and gore galore but if you show one nipple the movie is practically banned from theatres!
What message does this send to the American women? Exactly this: sexuality is bad, so bad in fact that it is worse than homicide. Nothing can be farther from the truth! Forcing women to go around thinking this while at the same time the very essence is REQUIRED for continuation of the species is an oxymoron on astronomical proportions. It keeps beauty and sexuality on the “dangerous” side and thus any display what-so-ever of beauty is automatically equated with sexuality and any response to the sexuality is, by default, bad. It forces the display of beauty BUT any reaction to the beauty is strictly prohibited by social norms. Unfortunately women are so conditioned to guard themselves and their body that any compliment therefore has one of two motives, either a romantic interest or sexual predatory impulses.
I have my suspicions as to why this paradox exists; for the benefit of the beauty industry but that is only my opinion. The night is late and I have not the time to support it with data but feel free to research if you like. In the end the equation beauty=sex=bad is very destructive and when forced to live under this paradigm many things which are norms in other countries are either strongly discouraged or outright illegal in the US. What is considered perverted in the US is considered nothing more than expression in 80% of the rest of the world. I know not how to change this mindset and, despite the “sexual revolution” of a few decades ago I still see generations of women condemned to living in an environment harmful towards their beauty and ability to express it.
I would like to say thank you to everyone who has contributed to this site, both the models, photographers and especially Eolake himself, without whom my ability to escape this mindset would never have been possible. Unfortunately due to the financial impacts of cancer (healthcare is basically restricted to those with $ in the US) am unable to subscribe but I very much enjoy the weekly updates and look forward to the continued excellence and high degree of QUALITY I see every week.
I have to agree with TP on his view of American's not being able to accept a compliment - it is attrocious! I grew up in the western Midwest (Dakotas) and have lived in the far West (southern California), the Midwest (Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio), and the deep South (Georgia, Alabama, Carolina), as well as France, Mexico, and Canada. I have also traveled worldwide extensively. Americans are the worst at accepting compliments but there are significant differences aorund the country and the southerners are certainly more accepting and gracious. The Midwesterners have virtually no ability to accept a direct compliment, al compliments need to come in sideways. I enjoyed that aspect of living in other countries. The French and Mexicans are happy to know that you think they are pretty, nice, fun, smart, etc. It was fun to be able to tell a girl that you thought she was pretty and have her just say "Gracious" or "Merci" with a smile that you made you both feel good about making the statement!
ReplyDeleteI don't know what part of the United States TP is referring to in his remarks. I've lived in the Midwest, northeast, and currently reside in Phoenix. If a woman has something about their appearance that I find very attractive, I often remark on it. Sometimes in the presence of my wife. I have NEVER had any response in my 30 years as an adult (I just turned 50) where someone acted offended. Nor has my wife every faulted me for it. Instead, I'm often greeted with a smile and often a shy 'Thank you'. And gentle teasing from a wife who knows her husband loves to make people smile.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's not what one says, but how one says it that solicits the responses TP referred to. I've never told a woman I didn't know she was beautiful. But I have commented on their clothes, eyes, freckles, and hair.
But then again, my lady friends have always told me they feel safe around me, they know I'm harmless. A part of me hates that label, why can't I be the 'bad boy' once in a while. But my heart tells me it's a wonderful thing to have friends that respect and understand you. So maybe this 'harmless' aura that surrounds me is something women can feel and know my comments are heartfelt, and not just some line.
When working in hospitals and care homes I was often complimented by patients. Bearing in mind that these people were sometimes elderly, frequently ill, and often had a tenuous grasp on reality (some would think I was their daughter/grand-daughter/secretary -you name it!), I felt I couldn't dismiss their comments by saying "No, I'm not!" or "Don't be silly!". So I became practised at trying to accept a compliment graciously, even if I didn't agree with it by saying something along the lines of "Thank you! That's a lovely thing to say!"
ReplyDeleteBeauty is in the eye of the beholder, and you can be accepting of an opinion without always agreeing with it!
Another american here who luvs and does complement beautiful people and great performances. But I too have had to practice to accept complements directed towards myself. So far, knock on wood, I have not had any bad experiences like those described above.
ReplyDeleteExactly, Baroness, thanks.
ReplyDeleteReminds me, I worked in a care home, and a lady, Tove, in her seventies at least, was fully demented, there was basically no sense at all in her conversations. But she was extremely sweet and outgoing and loving who would always meet you like an old friend. One day in a small group we were talking about a party they were going to that evening. So I said to Tove: "now, we'll have none of you getting drunk and dancing on the tables!" And we all laughed, including Tove. Exactly how much she understood of it I'll never know, but she understood the intention of the joke, and it was a lovely shared moment.
o so true! my parents came from Europe and I grew up in S.America. I know,you all will say: here comes the conquistador! No no. Recently I had a business lunch (in S.Florida) with my assistant's banker, a beautiful young lady. When I brought her flowers and said she looked stunning, that was it. She avoided me totally, so I had to with the guy, you know, the banker. Somehow girls/ladies cannot take a compliment in the US if you are truthful.
ReplyDeletehow sad! RJF
I am a West-Coast American and I disagree with TP. I've complimented many women on their beauty -- stangers and friends alike -- and I am not sure I've ever been responded to with hostility. Most often it is smile and a blush, sometimes it's met with an apology, in which case I admonish the gal to simply receive and enjoy a compliment.
ReplyDeleteOccasionally it's met with indifference, but rarely.
Compliment her on her eyes, her outfit, her skin, her beauty, but don't look her up and down and tell her she's hot. Let her be seen, to feel truly seen, really noticed, and respected with a thoughtful compliment. "I'm sorry, I can't help myself. Do you mind if I pay you a compliment?" Then pay it: "Your eyes sparkle! They're gorgous." or "You have one of the most beautiful smiles I've seen."
... You'll notice that those who say they never have problems, typically compliment aspects of the woman instead of bluntly saying "you're stunning" or the like. I spoke about that in the intro in the newsletter.
ReplyDeleteI thought I was going to get through the day without someone trying to make me feel bad over things I have no control over.
ReplyDeleteI love DOMAI, and steer people here in the US to it all of the time. I also love women for exactly what they are, and admire their beauty. I am not a consumer of porn, and certainly do not consider anything DOMAI does to be anything close to porn. This is true art, the subject of which is the most interesting I can imagine.
I know many of my countrymen and women are a bit uptight about accepting compliments, but there are also many who are not. I have met these women and complimented them. They always smile and say thank you. These are the women that KNOW they are beautiful, and I never pose myself as a threat or predator.
Thanks again to everyone for finding some other reason to blame America for the world's problems, be they big or small. I'm used to the idea of everyone throughout the world thinking we're a bunch if unenlightened cretins. This is why I have chosen to stay here. I have traveled, and as soon as I admit I'm an American attitudes change. I know that I would never be fully accepted or welcomed anywhere else.
I feel like a man without a country. I have nowhere left to go.
I'm so glad my day could be ruined over such a small subject.
Part of the reason that American Women can not or will not take a direct compliment is rooted in the National Association for Gals opinion that all a male wants is to have sex with her or keep her a second class citizen. It is getting easier now to open a door for a woman and not be degraded for such an act.
ReplyDeleteI for one appreciate a woman who wears dresses/skirts more than those whom feel the need to wear tight fitting pants. I feel that when wearing dresses/skirts it covers up some of the blemishes and improves the overall natural beauty.
"I thought I was going to get through the day without someone trying to make me feel bad over things I have no control over."
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry you feel that way.
You'll notice my own disclaimer: 'I don't have the statistics to evaluate this matter on an nation-to-nation basis, but I have noticed that people have widely varying capacity for handling a compliment.'
Obviously this is a much more complex subject than "America versus the world", we all know that, or should know.
Listen, myself or any of my friends will *not* disrespect you the *least* bit just for being American. Some of my best friends are American.
My guess is that at most 20% of Europeans, the least intelligent ones, have any problems with *all* Americans.
Anyway, I think there's a bit of a leap from what the letter-writer says, that American women have problems taking a compliment, to saying that Americans are evil, or whatever the idea would be.
I don't care a rat's turd what country has the record in difficulties-taking-compliments. Could be Albania or Sweden for all I know. I just know it's a human problem, but it's one we can solve over time.
I am no longer a young man according to the calendar. At 65 my spirit seems to think I am 21.
ReplyDeleteThere was a time I was unable to give a compliment to a member of the fairer sex for fear of the very thing being discussed here. Problem was I always interpreted it as personal rejection, not a normal response to genuine appreciation of beauty.
I now know both are wrong. As Eolake has pointed out the answer lies in method of delivery. A more indirect compliment is easier for American women to accept. I surmise they all want complements but are conditioned to question the authenticity of them.
A case in point. Several months ago I was standing in line at the bank waiting for a teller to be available. A young girl about 6 was playing tag or something with a young boy and as she ran under the guide rope she tripped and fell at my feet after hitting headlong into my knees. She immediately started crying and I bent and picked her up putting her on her feet. The crying continued but softened some. About this time her mother got to us and took the little girl by the hand. She told her daughter to thank the nice man for helping her up. Through soft sobs the girl said thank you. I said your welcome. Then I added you don't want to cry anymore. You are a beautiful young lady just like your mommy and crying makes funny lines on your face. That got me a slight smile and I said that's better now you are just as pretty as your mommy is. She looked up at her mother and they smiled at each other.
They returned to their place in line after "mommy" and I exchanged smiles and a little thank you was offered.
A couple weeks later standing in the same line the woman I now know as Judy left her place in line and came back to where I was. She again thanked me for my help. I told her it was the least I could do for two such lovely ladies. Her smile warmed my soul.
So now I have a friend in the bank line whenever we happen to be there at the same time.
A friendly smile and a soft compliment is something that will more often than not get at least a smile in return.
Greg
Thanks, Greg, I have added your very instructive comment to the post itself (here on the blog).
ReplyDeleteI've noticed the phenomenon that CA talks about with respect to violence versus nudity in cinema in the US. The author Spider Robinson once made a comment about how sick a society is that prefers pictures of a naked blade to pictures of a naked woman.
ReplyDeleteWow! Where to start! There are, perhaps, 3 possibilities why women behave the way they do, when complimented...perhaps more. I will try to be brief. As I have experienced it:
ReplyDelete1) I think that the American society spends way too much time in pursuit of the *unobtainium* -- men and women, alike -- namely, of *the woman* or *the look* of the airbrushed celebrities on the rag covers. The men don't seem to much notice a woman unless she is a stunning beauty and...there are MANY woman who are not that in our society...aesthetically; at least not without a pound of makeup on her face! lol!
Women NEVER seem to be happy with their physical attributes, I believe, because they/we are looking at these women who spend a LOT of time, money, and effort on just looking great. What pressure! Unless that is our profession, there *is* not enough time nor money to make such an effort...at least not on a daily basis! Hey! We're working on our careers and/or trying to raise kids, here! lol! We're BUSY and...it just happens to be that it's not *all about me* anymore for many women! :-)
2) I don't think many men were brought up being taught how to be a gentleman...ie: how is that taught in single-parent homes? That is the face of MANY homes, in our society. I don't believe that young men are taught to compliment a woman in a gentlemanly way by a father so go fumbling through those years getting more and more frustrated w/the attempts that they try to make.
3) Our news media is REALLY GOOD at creating FEAR in our country with the constant barrage of *men behaving poorly* in our society: seemingly, MANY men physically and sexually abuse women and children; abuse alcohol and drugs; and spend a great deal of time in prison. Who's left? Oh yeah: the married guys! lol! And...we hear about *them* in the political arena! lol!
Back to the original newsletter writer's question: "How is it that so many women cannot see their own beauty?"
In the case that MJ brings up, the woman has already had several children and *knows* that her body is much different than it used to be. Hormones change everything after a woman has had children. Many men do not understand this...including the fathers of the children that the woman bore!
DOMAI girls are, often times, not yet fully-developed women; nor have they had children. So...for MJ to compare the woman whom he was talking to, who had already had children, to DOMAI girls is, basically, comparing 2 varieties of...apples! lol!
I completely agree with what MJ says about how IMPORTANT it is for the men in our lives to compliment us on our physical attributes because YOU (men) are our (women's) mirrors. If our significant others do NOT compliment us, we would never recognize our physical attributes...only because our heads seem to be geared to notice the flaws more (again...thank the airbrushing magazine industry!)
So...yes...I challenge BOTH SEXES to learn to compliment the other...AND their own sexes, too, so that we're not all running around so *afraid* to: look in each other's faces (yes...there are cities where you do NOT go out of your way to even meet the gaze of the other sex...'tis true! D'ya think that might also contribute to the skittish nature of women, everywhere?!); smile; hold doors for each other (to HELL w/the Women's Movement! That's *so* 70's!! Just *be* a DECENT CITIZEN of the WORLD!!); and (gasp!) COMPLIMENT EACH OTHER!!
We just ALL need to point out the *BEAUTY* (physical characteristics or otherwise) of EVERYONE around us, no matter if they/we are *drop-dead gorgeous* or not! The former is NOT better or more *revered* than the latter and *that* mindset is what REALLY needs to change!
HILARIOUS! *This just in*...on Yahoo's front page regarding compliments! lol! http://tr.im/w386
ReplyDeleteFun side-line fact: I would swear I'd never heard the word "unobtainium" before in my life. And today I heard it twice. TC, here, and in the video here he talks about a camera which was like it was "carved from a block of solid unobtanium".
ReplyDeleteI have found that the best way to get a friendly response from anyonr, male or female, is to breifly look them in the eyes and smile.
ReplyDeleteYou can do this as you meet someone along the road, as you pay the checkout girl, or anywhere.
You will nearly always get a smile in return.
For years I had problems (fears) in expressing my thoughts on a womans beauty. I would see a person who would be very deserving of a little "Uplifting words" but could never get them past the thought stage. As I grew older and more confident in my thoughts and intentions I found it easier to express those visual compliments. One that I vividly remember was at a VERY busy fast food place, near a heavily travelled highway. I was 5 to 10 minutes waiting to be waited on in line and while I waited I observed one young lady in particular taking the orders, she was STUNNING to say the least, she actually looked out of place there. She worked quickly and made sure that all her customers were taken care of properly, finishing each with a "Thank You" but never receiving one in return.
ReplyDeleteMy turn came to have my order taken and unlike teh ones in front of me I spoke directly to HER, not the menu or the counter, but making eye to eye contact during my order requests. She must have felt a little uneasy and kept her head lowered during the rest of the time I stood there waiting however right before I left I got her attention and told her that she was absolutely gorgeous to look at and that her smiling eyes just made MY day. She then looked at me and I slowly saw a REAL smile come across her lips and she shyly told me "Thank You"...
As I walked away I looked back several times to see her smiling (at me AND her next customer).
I tried to make HER day just like she made mine. I feel better inside emotionally when I can see the beauty of a woman, and even moreso when I can help them see that in themselves.
I cannot recall any time where a compliment from me was met with a negative response from it's recipient.
Roger Randolph
West Virginia, USA
You just don't comment on the looks of a woman you don't know. Guys who do that are often creepy and socially clueless. Regardless of your intent, the unasked-for attention often makes women feel uncomfortable, especially when they're trapped behind a cash register and their job requires them to be friendly. Go ahead and compliment your friends and family members, but please think twice about how you talk to strangers.
ReplyDeleteAmericans have psychiatrists and lawyers: so sex is a sport or a performance there (how many orgasms, how big is yours, how big are hers?) , not related to love or tenderness. Violence is related to love! Nudity is porn!
ReplyDeleteI have many American friends and they are often in Europe and do not fit the above model. They are all men... American women I know all have a psychiatrist and are not friends. They don't know how to be just friends with a man.
Is this a sign? Did Rome decline?
I am the 'MJ' who wrote last Friday's newsletter. First of all, let me clarify that I do indeed live in the USA.
ReplyDeleteI must say that I totally agree with Eolake: complimenting a woman on a particular aspect of her beauty is usually better-received, while complimenting a woman on her beauty-in-general may not always evoke a positive response from some women.
I think one reason some women react badly when presented with a compliment is that they feel threatened. Any attempt by a stranger at personal interaction nowadays is often seen as a threat to a woman's safety. Every guy is seen as a potential stalker/serial killer. Sad state of affairs, indeed.
In some measure this feeling is a reflection of the sad state of reality today. In many places things are simply less safe today than a generation or two ago. But in some measure this feeling might also be a result of the media's attention to the dramatic news about depraved events rather than the less spectacular good news that happens every day.
So let me share something I generally do with women I don't know: I wait till I am nearly in the act of leaving the woman's presence before giving the compliment. That way, the woman can see that I clearly don't intend pursuing anything further with her, no ulterior motives for my compliment. Hopefully that eliminates or at least diminishes any possible reason for her to feel threatened by my words. And hopefully she can receive the compliment as it is intended - a simple tribute to her beauty. Nothing more, and nothing less.
Sometimes I even preface my compliment by saying: "Excuse me Miss" (or Ma'am, as the case may be), "I probably will never see you again. But I think you have lovely eyes." (or very beautiful hair, or a radiant smile, or whatever compliment I decide to give her.) And I try to make my complements not only about her physical beauty, but also about her inner beauty - her kindness in helping me with my business, her cheerfulness, etc.
Sometimes women receive my praise really well, other times less so. But I don't often give them a chance to feel threatened by me.
I really feel sorry for CA, with his unfortuntate experience of having Security called by the 'victim' of his complement. Bummer! It is such a shame. Whatever the cause, women have opposing inner feelings within themselves: they long to be assured that they are beautiful, but some women feel that every compliment by a stranger is a threat to their safety and well-being.
I find that while many people (men or women) just don't know what to do with complements, city girls seem to feel more threatened than women in more rural areas. After many years, I recently moved from a large city to a smaller city. And I have found that women in general tend to make more eye-contact and smile more in the smaller city. They are not as afraid of inter-personal contact. A short time ago, I stopped in a supermarket, thinking for a moment about what to buy. And a woman came up and asked if I needed any help. She wasn't even a store employee! Such an offer would not have been at all typical of my experience of the big city. Maybe that is an over-simplification, but fits my experience just the same.
I want to thank TC(Girl) for her comments. I think she is right on the money in much of what she says. I went and looked at the YAHOO article she referred to. It says some very true things. (including the one Eolake stated at the beginning of the whole conversation about complementing on individual characteristics - though in the article it refers not to a stranger but to one's beloved.)
Thanks to all for your comments.
- MJ
Eolake,
ReplyDeleteYour best photographs are the ones which have not been excessively cropped.
And I am the TP (also American) who made the response to MJ's letter. I've lived in the cities pretty much all my life.
ReplyDeleteMJ hits it spot-on with this crazy over-hyped fear of men by women in our culture. Basically, in American cities, if you're a man, you're a "potential rapist/murderer." It is hyped up by the news media organizations to get ratings, and too many people fall for it. This obviously has major issues in this country for male/female relations.
One time when attending the local university, I was walking to my truck. It was broad daylight, about 4pm local time. It was downstairs to the underground parking lot. You had to go through a door to get to it. Well, another student (female) was about 20 feet in front of me, also heading to the parking lot. I noticed her kinda glancing at me suspiciously, but trying not to be obvious about it. She went through the (spring-loaded) door and it closed after her. When I got to the door and opened it, I saw her sprinting for her car at top speed!
It was obvious that she figured me for a rapist or something similar. I had not said a word to her nor made any threatening action. I was just heading for my truck after the school day.
My Dad was in a similar situation at night, in California. There was a woman 30 feet ahead of him in a parking lot. He was walking to his car. Without a word, she turns and pulls a GUN on him! No, he had not made any "bad" moves toward her, he was just walking to his car. Being from Detroit, he had the presence to stop and say, "hey lady, I'm just heading to my car, same as you." She kept that gun pointed at him as he walked to his car and only put it away after he got to it and opened his car door.
Imagine if any man had given either of these women a genuine, gentlemanly compliment. Both of them likely would have called the cops, and these two ain't the only ones. The charge "sexual harassment" is thrown around way too much in this country.
Foreigners don't act like that. Foreigners are actually nice. They do not automatically assume that the man that they see on the street is going to assault them. I've heard that way out in farm country, "southern belles" are also smarter than "city gals" this way.
We have a lot, as a culture, to learn from Europe, Africa, Latin America, and other parts of the world. This is just one of those ways.
--TP
It seems that there are some common themes here, that match my experience as a not so old DOM...
ReplyDeleteI'm Australian- it's not just American girls who defend themselves against a compliment. Here we tend to knock down the tall poppy rather than attemp to communicate that we think she is indeed beautiful.
We are usually our own harshest critic, so women will be likely to pick on themselves more than others. They also know themselves and their thoughts, which may not always match their idea of perfection or beauty, or even just "good enough".
I've found that giving a compliment in the middle of a broader conversation, matter-of-fact, withough breaking stride, helps. Removing the implied expectation that she immediately respond takes away the awkward moment. It also helps to remove the association between a compliment about beauty and a pick-up line, which is usually intended to lead to a primarily sexual encounter rather than an honest one (not suggesting the two are mutually exclusive).
I genuinely believe in, and want to practice the art of communicating appreciation in a way that hits the right mark. I think this is an important part of reconciling our place in the bigger scheme of things.
Communication Basics- the message we think we are sending may not be the message that they are recieving. I'm really hearing the "softly softly" approach is what works, and have seen it myself. Maybe if more of us practice paying compliments gently, we'll get the balance right, and women will get accustomed to accepting gracefully rather than denying and feeling awkward or worse.
Thanks for sharing your insights - this grasshopper will practice what he's learning about the implementation side of the art!
Any clues on how to reconcile after having gone a bit too hard? :)
"I've found that giving a compliment in the middle of a broader conversation, matter-of-fact, withough breaking stride, helps. Removing the implied expectation that she immediately respond takes away the awkward moment."
ReplyDeleteHighly interesting!
More to say on this?
When I see a woman who is dressed nice or looks particularly good that day I often go out of my way to compliment them.
ReplyDelete"Excuse me. May I say how nice you look today."
I usually get a smile and a thank you to which I say, "It is my pleasure, believe me."
The lady in question has worked hard that day to get to look pretty and having someone to valdiate that look is a great pick-me-up for them and makes them look and feel even prettier.
And doesn't cost me a thing and makes both of us feel good.
I have noticed that those who say they never have problems, typically express simply specific subjective feelings sharing them in a gentle way (without fishing for an answer) rather than pointing the words outwards at somebody else making a general statement, which might be misunderstood as intrusive.
ReplyDeleteOf course, the threshold where a compliment or some other communication is understood/misunderstood as intrusive or not, is in my experience individually very different, and in the average also very different in different countries over the world, depending on ... o.k., not too much analyzing here. I have experienced big differences while traveling in some countries over the world (a little bit in America and North Africa, some more in India, and of course in different European countries, mostly southern ones - BTW I'm German).
However, the general recipe mentioned above was also always very helpful for me. And another important aspect are the nonverbal signals at the same time, mainly your inner context defining your "vibes".
That's very true. Picture Jimmy Stewart saying "you look nice today", and then Willem Dafoe saying it.
ReplyDeleteI’m an Australian man, 64 years old. I found the Newsletter and this discussion after spending the weekend in a personal-development workshop. We touched many of the issues in and around this discussion, but especially three: loving ourselves, developing trust, and clear communication.
ReplyDeleteOur culture tends to deliver many negative messages to us (men and women) – we are too thin, too fat, the wrong colour, too hairy, not hairy enough, and so on, on and on. Surveys have shown that school children receive 10 or 15 negative messages for every compliment they receive. Too often parents unwittingly (or otherwise) let their children know how they are disappointing or (supposedly) inadequate. Many of the negative messages come from advertising, which exploits our insecurities and also exacerbates them.
The result of this bombardment of negativity is that most of us have very poor images of ourselves, we see mostly our faults, and we don’t like ourselves. Try this. Go to a mirror and look directly and deeply into your own eyes. Say hello to yourself, out loud and by name (“Hello Joe/Hello Jane”). Say “You’re looking good today”. Say “I love you Joe/Jane”. Many people can’t even do the first thing, let alone the second, third or fourth. I hated it the first time I tried it.
If I think I’m skinny and ugly and a woman says to me “You’re so handsome”, I’m going to be flustered and embarrassed, way out of my comfort zone, and quite sure she’s just “being nice” because I “know” it’s not true. Even if I’m used to the idea that (some) people consider me handsome, I may consider that I’m timid and socially inept, so if a woman says I’m handsome I’ll think “Yes, but I’m really a miserable piece of manhood”, and rebuff the compliment for fear of being exposed.
In the workshop I was just in, women (and men) wept to see a man unburdening himself of his deep fears, to see him willing to be so vulnerable. I’m talking about a big, strong man. They wept again when men treated them with gentleness and respect, even reverence. Women often say, in these workshops, this is the first time in their lives they have felt completely safe with a man. I have experienced a woman going from (literally) trembling fear to loving gratitude in the course of a 20-minute exercise together. (And no, we did not go on to have sex or any other thing. We just experienced that brief and beautiful connection together.) It is a revelation for many women to experience how gentle (and strong) men can be.
On the other side it is a revelation for many men to be received with complete trust, so they do not feel like predators. Then they can relax into being gentle, open, vulnerable and intimate. I am proud to be with this kind of men, and to feel myself one of them. What if all men were safe to be with? Safe for women, safe for other men?
In the workshop we practiced clear communication. A thirty-something woman with a beautiful shapely body shared with me that when we first met she felt I was “sleazing” on her. She added that she didn’t feel that way any more. I said simply “Thankyou”. Later I offered her a compliment: I thanked her for having the courage to let me know my appreciation of her had gone over the line into intrusion. (I was a support person in the workshop and it’s very important I treat everyone with respect, so they feel safe.) She responded that she felt it was her own fear that gave her the feeling of being sleazed on. Nevertheless I need to be sensitive to her fear.
The workshops are clothing-optional. We get to appreciate the many kinds of physical beauty of our human bodies, male and female, not just the magazine or Domai kinds. A woman who is comfortable in her body animates it in a way that is beautiful to me. I don’t just see her body, I see her character, her uniqueness and her inner beauty shining out. It’s a wonderful way to relate to these miracles all around us: women.
If you want to know more about these workshops go to the website of the Human Awareness Institute, www.hai.org.
I agree with Peter who said
ReplyDelete"I have found that the best way to get a friendly response from anyone, male or female, is to briefly look them in the eyes and smile.
You can do this as you meet someone along the road, as you pay the checkout girl, or anywhere.
You will nearly always get a smile in return."
I pass many beautiful women (and aren't they all beautiful in their own way) and will make a point of looking them in the eye and smiling. And often I'm rewarded with a smile in return.
I sometimes wonder if part of their response is the fact that I'm looking at their eyes. They are, after all, the gateway into a person's soul and reveal the beauty within.
...and are we aware of how THIS post and all these comments with their descriptions of real life situations are taking us a step further in the right direction: to understand one another better while reading about other people´s thoughts?
ReplyDeleteThank you so much to DOMAI and its newsletters, and for putting up a post like this, which surely will continue to appear in a similar context and will further help to bring mankind closer to understanding themselves!
:-))
Exactly, MB.
ReplyDeleteNobody can dig a tunnel with one bite of a shovel. But every bite helps.
MJ said...
ReplyDelete"I want to thank TC(Girl) for her comments. I think she is right on the money in much of what she says."
Thank you, MJ, for you...uh...compliment! ;-) Nice of you to say. Just my observations and personal experiences. :-)
"I went and looked at the YAHOO article she referred to. It says some very true things. ... - though in the article it refers not to a stranger but to one's beloved.)"
Yes. I was sharing it in hopes of assisting those who had read your newsletter - particularly the second-to-last paragraph - where you write about this. I thought what you wrote about making the woman (and, conversely, I would have to add, for ladies, the man in our lives) in a man's life know is really a key item; not just *showering* compliments on everyone else. :-)
Oh and...you had another question in your newsletter: "How many of the women among our Domai viewers struggle to see yourselves as beautiful? And if so, why is that??"
I would have to count myself *in* as one of the ones who struggles w/seeing my outward/physical self as beautiful because men have actually made the effort to make comments to make me aware of my *imperfections*. However, I do have to also say that having someone in my life, now, who tells me, differently, does make me feel better about myself; so, yes, *appreciation* goes a long way to how we feel about ourselves. Of course, it would be even nicer if we were appreciated for WHO we are, inside, more than the external vessel we've been given but...I realize that that ain't happening anytime soon! lol!
MJ: do you have a photo site that we can see your work?
Monsieur Beep said...
ReplyDelete"...But a well-balanced compliment should work in every situation (e/g a wink and a look at the spot on the woman which draws your highest appreciation)."
May I, respectfully, say, Monsieur Beep: even IF I enjoyed *someone* oggling my *rack* (lol!), *I* would REALLY STRUGGLE to *appreciate* a look right at them from a stranger...especially after a wink! Perhaps both are considered "well-balanced" in Germany but I don't quite think would be taken quite as...uh...*appreciatively* in America, sorry to say. To me, *that* would be considered "creepy" but...perhaps I am too much of a prude, already! lol!
"Of course, it would be even nicer if we were appreciated for WHO we are, inside, more than the external vessel we've been given but..."
ReplyDeleteThe ultimate goal would be inner peace and joy, undisturbed by outer circumstances either negative *or* positive.
Of course that's a long-term goal, perhaps even lifetimes, but I think it can be done, and part of the theory says that giving up judgement of others, no matter how "well deserved" will eventually lead there.
A let me just slide in here that if a compliment, even with sexual undertones, of one's outer appearance is disturbing, then this must stem from a very significant insecurity about one's inner value.
ReplyDeleteRichard T. said...
ReplyDelete"...(or) makes me feel happy to be alive." (Corny? Yes. But also true.) Everyone can identify with feeling. As the great dramatic writing teacher Lajos Egri once wrote, "It's what we feel that is important, not what we think.""
I really appreciate what you write, here, re: men expressing how women make them "feel". I completely agree: women are ALL about "feelings"! I think that we ALL wish that the men in our lives would share MORE of how they FEEL - about EVERYTHING - so that we can better understand them. That way we can finally feel like we can connect at some level other than at [many times] the superficial physical level. We need to have a basis of connection before it will go much further. Just a hint, from a woman's perspective, for anyone trying to find the right key. Oh and...it has to be genuine 'cuz B.S. doesn't *cut it* either! We can *smell* B.S. a mile away! lol! ;-)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFrank said...
ReplyDelete"how sick a society is that prefers pictures of a naked blade to pictures of a naked woman."
I have never understood that, either, and...it would be NICE if MORE MEN were added to the "naked" equation, too!
Benjamin K said...
ReplyDelete"Any clues on how to reconcile after having gone a bit too hard? :)"
Will the person still look at you?! lol! Just be *yourself,* next time, and joke w/her, instead! Set her at ease, a few times, before attempting to compliment her, again. I think many woman like to be able to establish trust, first, also. :-)
MJ back again. :-)
ReplyDeleteWhat a wonderful idea!!! Thank you, Benjamin K, for giving me (and I bet many others) a fine tool in the art of giving a compliment in a way that is likely to get a good reception. I am referring to your comment which Eolake also found intriguing, namely: “I've found that giving a compliment in the middle of a broader conversation, matter-of-fact, without breaking stride, helps.”
A SUPER idea! I just love the suggestion. And I find the reasons you give for its positive results really quite compelling. “Removing the implied expectation that she immediately respond takes away the awkward moment. It also helps to remove the association between a compliment about beauty and a pick-up line, which is usually intended to lead to a primarily sexual encounter.”
I intend to start immediately to try and develop this skill / art-form. I personally will have to use some imagination to practice doing it before it comes naturally, but that practice is a good thing! Of course it is more suited to conversations with people you already know (and therefore with whom you are likely to have longer conversations). But maybe I can find how to weave the complement into some of my shorter conversations with more casual acquaintances in my life as well.
Also, in response to TC Girl, thank you for your candor in sharing that you struggle with seeing yourself as beautiful. That took some courage! I am sorry that some men have taken it upon themselves to point out your ‘imperfections’. I rejoice with you that you have someone in your life now who shows you true appreciation. What a great gift!
You asked if I have a photo-website to see my work. The truth is that the nude photographs I have taken of women over the years have been for the women themselves, (and very often especially for the man in their lives as well). Typically these images were taken with the understanding that they would not be shared with people outside the immediate circle of the woman herself, and she would generally be the one to do the sharing. I have always respected the woman’s wishes in this regard, and I treasure the trust they have placed in me. I’m sure you can see what a privilege this is. …Perhaps some of the women I photograph will eventually want to share their images with the whole world, as the Domai women do. If and when that happens, let me know where to reach you! (or maybe Domai itself will be a good venue – though I tend more toward a somewhat different style than is typical of Domai.)
Your final comment about it being a long time off before women are appreciated for who you are rather than the external vessel you were given, I have two things to respond to that: First, appreciation of the vessel CAN go hand in hand with appreciation of the person within. And second, let’s be part of the solution! The more people who attempt to change a state of affairs, (in this case, an interior attitude towards others), the sooner that change will become widespread.
But it has to start somewhere, even with a few, or even one. Soooo… I will make a greater conscious effort to work toward appreciating the whole person I am with at any given moment ~ both the outer vessel and precious cargo within the vessel. And I will try to make it a point of recognizing the good in myself too, and share myself more with others – the whole me, vessel and cargo. And I will also try harder to accept a complement graciously when it comes around… (like you did in your post.)
Also, by the way, you’re very welcome! - MJ22488@gmail.com
I am still in my lower twens and I often meet women around my age who are still uncomfortable with their own inherent beauty. Some say they do not want to go to the pool because they "hate guys looking". Some wear ill-fitting trousers because they "hate guys looking". Whenever I hear a pretty girl say that, I am getting a bit sad. I tell them they should take the attention, however sexually motivated it may be, as a compliment, for they _are_ nice to look at. I can't tell that has immediate effect, but I hope I can provide some puzzle pieces for them building their self-awareness.
ReplyDeleteQuizzically, the most women that have problems with themselves are the pretty ones. Those too thin or too bulky (meaning, BMI smaller than 18 or larger than, say, 27) are often perfectly confident - and some manage to have an air of handsomeness around them just because of that.
MJ said...
ReplyDelete"Also, in response to TC Girl, thank you for your candor in sharing that you struggle with seeing yourself as beautiful. That took some courage!"
You're welcome. I only answered in hopes of sharing feedback that might help *others* to realize how much, uh, *weight* all of our comments are on each other. I will definitely not admit to being perfect at it, myself, sadly. :-(
"I am sorry that some men have taken it upon themselves to point out your ‘imperfections’."
I have to admit that, after having written that, I would have to include my mother in that group. I was "handsome" in her words! Endearing, huh?! ;-)
"I rejoice with you that you have someone in your life now who shows you true appreciation. What a great gift!"
Yes. It has been a *first* in my life that I have experienced that so...it has been a true gift. :-)
"The truth is that the nude photographs I have taken of women over the years have been for the women themselves, (and very often especially for the man in their lives as well)."
What a VERY COOL service and privilege; you're right! AND...also a very cool gift, too! :-)
"First, appreciation of the vessel CAN go hand in hand with appreciation of the person within."
True
"And second, let’s be part of the solution! The more people who attempt to change a state of affairs, (in this case, an interior attitude towards others), the sooner that change will become widespread."
Sounds like a great idea to me! :-)
"But it has to start somewhere, even with a few, or even one. Soooo… I will make a greater conscious effort to work toward appreciating the whole person I am with at any given moment ~ both the outer vessel and precious cargo within the vessel."
Very cool. And I will say thank you, in advance, for making the effort to "be the change that you want to see in the world" as I will, now, also. :-)
"And I will try to make it a point of recognizing the good in myself too, and share myself more with others – the whole me, vessel and cargo."
Yup! If we could ALL just be our *authentic selves* then, perhaps, the smoke screens would begin to clear and our *fear-based* relations (interesting. I hadn't read Mr. Davies' posting, for a couple of days, and was just reminded that he spoke about the fear in his posting, too, as I have been thinking about, in this ENTIRE discussion) that we, the sexes, *battle out* with each other.
I apologize for how many postings that I have done but there has been SO MUCH to cover in this very complex issue. It just grieves the HECK out of me to read how *challenged* men are to just share a simple/sweet/acknowledging compliment. It *is* a sad state of affairs; VERY SAD! :-( But how COOL that you, MJ, *put it on the table* for *the masses* (come on, Ladies! Write in to share your thoughts, along with me, here, PLEASE! :-) to discuss, here, and THANKS, also, to Eo, for posting your newsletter and...putting up with ALL my postings on this! lol! I just wanted to let the gentlemen know that *their* courage to be open about their experiences had been acknowledged. :-)
"And I will also try harder to accept a complement graciously when it comes around… (like you did in your post.)"
I think ALL people need to be acknowledged and have practiced it my entire life. As I stated, earlier, I am not perfect at it but I *do* make an effort most of the time. "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" (paraphrasing for recognizability) :-)
Akerbos said...
ReplyDelete"...some manage to have an air of handsomeness around them just because of that."
HILARIOUS! I just used that very term in my posting that I was working on, when yours must have come it! lol!
It's COOL that you are aware of this issue, already, Akerbos, and that you are wanting to be sensitive and supportive of the young ladies. Continue to be the gentleman that you are with the ladies, and you will be richly rewarded...with many great female friends in your life. And...encourage the young ladies to check out Eo's DOMAI website, where there are MANY newsletters that share how MANY other young ladies have had struggles with self-image, in the past, and have overcome them. :-)
MJ wrote
ReplyDelete...city girls seem to feel more threatened than women in more rural areas... I recently moved from a large city to a smaller city. And I have found that women in general tend to make more eye-contact and smile more in the smaller city. They are not as afraid of inter-personal contact.
I am the Peter that wrote
...the best way to get a friendly response from anyone, male or female, is to breifly look them in the eyes and smile.
I am sure MJ is right. I live in a small village where everyone knows everyone else and we always smile and speak, if only briefly, when we meet around the village, so I find this easy to do in other places.
I have found that this is always accepted with a returned smile and a greeting in smaller towns and country areas. In larger towns it only seems acceptable if in a small group, perhaps waiting for a bus or to cross a busy road. Then a smile and an appropriate remark can help relieve the irritation and tension of the wait.
The important thing is always to make eye contact before speaking, be polite and don’t make personal comments to someone you do not know, or if you do, bring it to the general conversation, where they don’t have reply.
A persons eyes can tell you so much about their personallity and what they are thinking. Far more than their body shape or colour. From their eyes you can usually judge what it might be acceptable to say to them.
I am not a consumer of porn, and certainly do not consider anything DOMAI does to be anything close to porn.
ReplyDeleteIs Domai really that different, though? I am judging here based on the pictures available in the free newsletter, but many of the poses don't seem to fit the philosophy, they seem overtly sexual and forced. There is also little variety (races), and many of the models are in the "barely legal" category. That is again based solely on the free images.
P.S. Compliments are sometimes not appreciated because women especially in business have a hard time even today being taken as seriously as men, and by complimenting her body you're reducing her to a mere object. A woman would not make comments like that upon meeting a man, even if she did think them.
So much truth, with variations.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, US citizens generally have hangups regarding intimacy of any kind, and it's getting worse. I've had all of the above experiences, and more. I've had several women that I considered to be close friends reject me after I told them I thought they were beautiful.
The media have been pushing sexual deviance for so long, that it's generally accepted that any expression of appreciation is a sexual come-on. Some highly-publicized child-sexual-abuse cases about twenty-five years ago resulted in schools teaching kids to suspect every interaction with an adult. It does seem to be more pronounced in larger cities, with parents teaching children to scream if an adult even smiles at them. Practically everyone under age 40 has had some of this indoctrination.
One of my jobs requires us to wear uniforms that are not flattering, and we car-pool. On a break, I heard some of the twenty-something women commenting about how "creepy" a certain male co-worker is. I asked them why they thought that. Once, a couple of other young women changed into regular clothes for the ride home. He mentioned that they looked very nice. I said, "A man gives you a compliment and that makes him a creep?" They gave me that look that says, "I can't believe you don't understand this. What planet are you from?" and said, "He's like, ten years older than us!" as if that explained everything. I asked, "Would it be ok if he was your age?" That depended on whether he was attractive and single, thus "appropriate" to be hitting on them.
To work around this, I've found that prefacing my compliment with, "Don't take this wrong, but I just wanted to say..." works every time.
An interesting contrast regarding national attitudes about nudity: My friend from Bulgaria, who happens to be an absolutely gorgeous woman, is embarrassed by American girls wearing miniskirts and short t-shirts. Yet, she thinks it's totally stupid that women can not go topless in public in the US!
ReplyDeleteMJ back again…
ReplyDeleteBravo, Eolake, for your example (on the website Newsletter place for Aug 7th) of how put Benjamin’s idea into practice. You did a great job of injecting a compliment into a conversation indirectly but matter of factly, without putting the recipient on the spot for a response. Thanks for starting the ball rolling in that regard.
Thank you, Peter, for your suggestion to always make eye contact and smile, and judging the response to that smile and eye contact before deciding whether to make a comment about the woman’s beauty or other good qualities. I hadn’t thought of that in particular, but it seems like a good idea. Putting that into practice may limit me somewhat, because I would sometimes like to compliment a woman who has not yet looked my way. But since my purpose is to make the woman feel good about herself, (rather than feeling ‘creeped out’ about me), your idea seems like a good thermometer of how a compliment may be received.
And I totally agree that the eyes tell so much about the person. How many times have I seen eyes shining with an inner joy and thought (and sometimes said: “Your beauty shines from the inside out!”) I think Mother Teresa was like that, and many others as well. Thanks for sharing this suggestion.
And to TC Girl, thank you for mentioning your mother’s influence on your view of yourself. I have a dear friend who was similarly influenced by her mother. It was not an easy thing to break out of the shadow of the cloud that her mother (quite inadvertently) placed over her head. Gratefully, some good people in her life were able to help her a great deal with her self-image. How much our parents, siblings, or other important people in our early years engrave a particular image of us in our own minds, notwithstanding all the best will in the world on their part! Fortunately, much of the negative image can be overcome in time ~ with some patience, and lots of love.
And that leads me to my last comment: I love that you put the quote about ‘Do unto others’ in your post. Finally, it does come down to that ~ treating others as we would like to be treated. THAT is true love! (I appreciated the link too.) Thanks again for everything.
MJ22488@gmail.com
For a much less intelligent discussion on this topic: http://www.yourtango.com/20086672/what-a-man-sees-when-youre-naked
ReplyDeleteVery revealing!
"My friend from Bulgaria, who happens to be an absolutely gorgeous woman, is embarrassed by American girls wearing miniskirts and short t-shirts. Yet, she thinks it's totally stupid that women can not go topless in public in the US!"
ReplyDeleteLOL. The human mind is amazing.
I hear that in Brazil full nudity is a very serious sin. And yet, or perhaps because of it, Brazil is the home of the super-ultra-mini bikini.
Well, it's nice to see that so many relevant and intelligent remarks were made on this most interesting topic even before I started titillating the discussion in my usual fashion.
ReplyDeleteNo, but really, there's an excellent level with all the contributors to this blog, several of whom I had never noticed before.
In other words: I was trying to subtly compliment you people. ;-)
Please don't take offense and flame me?
Some silliness might also be relevant to the discussion. My little nephew loves us to play co-op the videogame Crash of the Titans. This game is not only gorgeous and entertaining, it's also very often hilarious. Like when bratty teen Nina Cortex steals her evil scientist uncle's plan to take over the world, and heroic Crash Bandicoot of course intervenes:
"Crash? Get out of my giant robot! This is MY body, MY right to choose."
She's a juvenile criminal, but she's got a point there.
In fact, several sharp points on the legs of her giant killer spider-bot!
Being the thoughtless animal that he is, Crash of course proceeds to intrude on the personal space of the spider-bot and physically assault it. Then he rudely shoves Nina aside, takes control of the spider-bot, and uses it to blast the cogs of the giant Doominator robot. Not once, not twice, but three odious times. Is it any wonder poor defeated Nina throws a wailing tantrum? "Eyew! I've got orange hair all over me!" And people will still ask why young Nina turned precocious delinquent...
So, once again, the days is saved thanks to Crash Bandicoot. But at the cost of his last remnant of dignity as a patriotically-correct hero.
Concerned mothers everywhere, led by Saint Sarah Palin, then make angry demonstrations demanding that Crash never be sent to Iraq, even if he's the only one capable of out-Seagalling the baddies with a mighty Norris Roundhouse Kick™. For that is what Jesus would do. Turn the other Sheikh!
About my own two bits of testimony: most Lebanese blokes tend to make compliments that are as subtle as a kick in the groin of a hornets' nest. AND their intention behind it is precisely what American women so often imagine wrongly.
Maybe American women are just particularly wary of the potential encounter with a Neanderthal? A paranoia based on a VERY tiny number of true predator cases.
Even in Lebanon. They're just dumb, most of the times their hark is worse than their bite.
I don't know, but really, to me it just seems obvious common sense to have some finesse when making a compliment. Be it only to convey the added and important message that you ARE a man with some finesse, your way of speaking indicating the implicit equivalent in the way you think.
Otherwise said: every place has its own criteria as to what makes you sound like a celibate gorilla. A bit of subtle goes a long way, precisely because it's part of the overall manners. Like JohnF says, it's important to give out the feeling that you ARE harmless. No serious and balanced women really prefer "bad boys", that's just a myth.
Of course, with some people, there's no point in trying. I recently had an encounter with a hysterical dudette who insisted I was THE worst male chauvinistig pig, and a hypocrite on top, that she had ever met and would ever meet. (Lucky it was over the internet, I avoided the annoyment of a public scene.)
[Tune in next blog post, Blog-fans, same blog-time, same blog-channel.]
["The Joker's Plight: Harley Quinn Wants Compliments"]
ReplyDeleteBaroness,
Graciousness in a woman, or simply grace [it's about the same thing] is what I find the most attractive. Perhaps you feel you're not physically beautiful to a special degree, and perhaps it's true, but maybe these people complimenting you did so precisely because they knew you long enough to perceive your great inner beauty.
I know many "perfect ten" women whose complete absence of a beautiful soul within renders totally unattractive to me. Beauty is a whole.
I don't know whether that was a compliment... ;-)
It's true that accepting compliments can be quite tricky. There's the near-universal education norm teaching us insistently that we must be modest to the max (well, except for dictators and their future heirs). And then there's the very real abundance of people who only flatter you to get something from you. Be it your money, your vote, or your body.
It took me many years to realize just how much we are surrounded by crooks of all sorts. But I was helped by an innate radar for telling BS from sincerity.
People who welcome sincerity and give out the same are those whom I'm interested in befriending. The others, the opposite neurotic ones, are well worth the transient annoyance caused by their immediate burst of hostility, in counterpart for the peace of mind of NOT having them stay in your life.
"Thanks again to everyone for finding some other reason to blame America for the world's problems"
It's not America. (Even in world politics, it's really not just America, it's everyone.)
The problem is with uptightness. It makes Americans feel targeted because, objectively, there's A LOT of uptights in America, and they gather more visibility simply because of America's (the USA, I mean) cultural prominence in the world.
Sometimes I'm quite glad that so few people know what the average Lebanese is like. *MY* country has a bad enough rep as it is...
"America" has got, not only an immense potential, but also a lot of good things going on for it. But you know the saying: spare the rod, spoil the child. The USA have a particular responsibility towards the world, because of their major role in so many domains, and also towards themselves, because... well, just because! Because they can be such a great country sometimes.
"America? Fuck yeah!" ;-)
"this is a much more complex subject than "America versus the world", we all know that, or should know."
Again, "fuck yeah!" If we don't know that, we damn well should. :-)
"My only prejudice is towards prejudiced people. And still I try to give them the benefit of doubt until I know them better."
"I don't care a rat's turd what country has the record in difficulties-taking-compliments. Could be Albania or Sweden for all I know."
Make it a goat's turd and I'll sell you Lebanon. ;-)
Seriously, our women -in general, not universally- have that thing about appearances, and plastic surgery, while at the same time being paranoid about compliments.
But it's true that many men, and the most noticed ones at that, only want to sex them...
[Will my electricity hold long enough to post everything? Oh, the cliffhanger!]
["Bats and Brutes: Bane Just Wants To Be Loved"]
ReplyDeleteTC,
Thank you for bringing us the testimony of a woman.
The truth is, we ALL more or less long for better looks. It's in human nature. Even those people who are "stunning in real life" always see some imperfections in their own bodies. Heck, I'll honestly admit, I wouldn't mind one bit having the physical aesthetics of an olympic gymnast! And this, in spite of the fact that for "a man of my age and ethnicity", I'm practically a hunk! A nice and young-looking face, no pot-belly (barely SOME belly at all), and practically no hair loss. Oh, and very nice legs.
95% of the time, there's still room for some improvement to long for.
The sensible thing to do, for all of of us, is to draw from this natural insatisfaction the incentive to make efforts at self-improvement when we KNOW that we could easily be more fit, for "healthy is beautiful, period". And once the result is rather satisfactory, dump the rest of the insatisfaction.
This is why I have very little incentive for making efforts. ;-)
What was this country song again?
Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror..." :-)
"The men don't seem to much notice a woman unless she is a stunning beauty"
Like I said, I tend to notice women who radiate inner beauty.
Some men I know are "ass" guys, others are "boobies" guys, "legs" guys... Me, I'm essentially a "smile" dude. Sexy souls don't get old with time; they just get better, like fine wine.
Not that I mind some Beaujolais nouveau with an age close to mine. There'll be plenty of time to age and bonify together. :-)
And I believe that a truly beautiful woman is one that I'll find just as beautiful when she wakes up in the morning. NATURAL beauty. Somehow, the less make-up I see, the better. Only the truth is beautiful.
This is why I'm really not the kind to be gone in the morning without even saying goodbye. :-)
If you wake up in the morning and don't see me, then I'm probably making breakfast.
["Adventures of Super Nice Guy" will continue after these messages]
["Your Secret Lair Or Mine?"]
ReplyDeleteAlso, the very PRESSURE of trying to be *perfect* brings a worry that spoils that natural beauty of a woman that I'm talking about. A beautiful woman needs only be adorned with a nice, happy smile.
This is why I so love Domai. The smiles. Normal smiles, laughing smiles, just sketched smiles... anything that goes towards a smile. A true smile goes a long way. (About a mile, easily!)
Pouting disdainful air-inflated bimboes? Snarling pornstresses perched on crudely-colored platform stilts? Angry leathery dominatrixes cracking their whips? NO THANKS!
Sex should mean making love, not war. :-P
Some of the instances which make me find a woman most beautiful: blooming pregnancy, and nursing a baby. Or just the look that says "I'm happy being with you right now".
Porno might have shaped the average primate's fantasy of the most desirable woman, but it looks like I'm viscerally a non-conformist. I only follow fads when THEY agree with ME.
And silicon/collagen/botox ain't one of those.
Unlike some here, I do "consume" some porn. Hey, I'm single and healthy! (And honest, ya gotta give me credit for that. :-) But I feel like I'm getting picky. The more contemporary porn becomes vulgar, tasteless and ugly, the more insatisfaction I feel. Because I don't have any problems with sexuality, but I do have a lot of them with the utterly twisted standards of today's world.
Speaking of which, here's a pop quiz: which country today is the world's first producer of porn, and happens to also have the most tasteless production of porn?
That's right: "squeamish" United States of America.
All extremes are bad. Especially when BOTH COEXIST in the same place!!!
But no true-blooded American would ever do anything half-heartedly, right? ;-)
Say, what's so un-sexy about a woman raising kids?
At a big shopping mall, a disheveled woman wearing a green shirt and white panties wearily reaches the lost-and-found office:
"Please, did anybody perchance bring you a green skirt with five kids clinging to it?"
A skirtless woman with her hair wild in a public place, now there's a sexy image. ;-)
Also, TC makes a very good point about the importance of education. 'Nuff said.
I'll comment on the rest later on. The world's moving too fast for old me sometimes.
Sheesh. You get busy for a couple of days, and all of a sudden you've got 56 posts to comment upon? Mercy!
Besides, with the 4,096 character limit for posts still enforced, I need to come up with some added sequel titles between post slices. You have no idea of the work this takes.
["Eee-tha-tha-tha... that's all for today, folks!"]
Want to say that I find that most women find flaws with their bodies. They look in the mirror or at pictures of themselves and mentally compare that with the pictures of airbrushed models or of a young female who has the advantage of youth.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the human body it in a constant state of change.
The older woman looks at herself and thinks she is not beautiful because she has lost the teenage body she once had.
The woman who is in her 40's sees herself as unattractive because she is looking for that young body she once had.
It takes effort but when you can accept the body you have it will change your whole outlook on life.
Heard once that your body changes about every seven years. That sounds about right. I know that the one that I have now is nothing like the one that I had a few years ago.
By getting past that wall that women put up to protect against criticism. You can change their whole outlook on life.
Joe
I think for men and women alike, compliments can be both hard to give and receive, but I always endeavor to seize the opportunity when it presents itself (always being careful of contexts). The latest opportunity I had was to a young lady at a company picnic a month or so ago. After talking with her for an hour, and finding her eyes to be very beautiful, before we parted, I said with all sincerity "you have really nice eyes." It was the last thing I said to her, and I trust she received it with the candor in which it was meant.
ReplyDeleteI've been reminded that just thinking a compliment isn't one--only when it is expressed does it truly exist and take effect.
In this regard, a lady once told me that "A smile and good, solid eye-contact tells a woman all that and more. Work on flirting with your eyes. Look into their soul; not their blouse. That is the ultimate compliment."
To get an idea of just how much of an impact compliments have for women, I would suggest looking at operationbeautiful.com. Started by a woman to encourage and uplift other women, its effect has struck a chord among women of all ages with the simple truth that they are beautiful--the message they desperately need to be reminded of in today's world. Try as they might, no media or marketing ploys can change the truth that women ARE beautiful. It's up to all of us to be constant reminders of that fact.
Pascal said...
ReplyDelete"...For that is what Jesus would do. Turn the other Sheikh!"
"...most of the times their hark is worse than their bite."
"...celibate gorilla." LOL!
LOL!! You SILLY/FUNNY man! :-)
"No serious and balanced women really prefer "bad boys", that's just a myth."
Have you done a survey, Pascal? ;-)
Sorry to read about the online rant. Sounds like she might have been a "bad girl"! lol! You're probably better off! ;-)
Mr. Davies thanks so much for sharing the website and your personal experience w/the group. It sounds like a very healing place. If ALL that wanted to go could just do that, what a better place this would be, I'm SURE! :-)
ReplyDeleteThanks, also, to Gregory Donner for sharing that cool website. I love this idea! Nice! :-)
And...thanks, Roger, for your nice compliment and comment: "...(and aren't they all beautiful in their own way)". :-)
There are a LOT of VERY GOOD comments, here. I hope BOTH SEXES are encouraged by everyone's contributions. :-)
Gregory Donner said:
ReplyDelete"In this regard, a lady once told me that 'A smile and good, solid eye-contact tells a woman all that and more. Work on flirting with your eyes. Look into their soul; not their blouse. That is the ultimate compliment.'"
Well said.
I make a point of looking at a woman's eyes as she passes. I believe I'll often get a smile because she realizes I'm not staring at her blouse.
Looking at and into their eyes reveals who they are. As was said earlier by Joe:
"... the human body it in a constant state of change."
But the soul doesn't.
When I was young and more fit, women would sometimes stare at my legs, I have great legs when I'm fit. I never got offended, I loved it.
ReplyDeleteJimbo said:
ReplyDelete"Is Domai really that different, though? I am judging here based on the pictures available in the free newsletter, but many of the poses don't seem to fit the philosophy, they seem overtly sexual and forced. There is also little variety (races), and many of the models are in the "barely legal" category. That is again based solely on the free images."
The images he has viewed are a very small sampling of the variety available within. Eolake has done a terrific job of presenting some of the most truly beautiful women. While some poses could be considered 'sexual', this is definitely not the emphasis.
There are many women who would never be considered elsewhere, but their beauty is there for those with eyes to see it.
I find some of the most riveting pictures to be those which close-up on the face. You can't hide a beautiful soul.
Thanks, Roger.
ReplyDeleteThe editing is very important. And when I look at MET-art or FemJoy, I sense something missing. Some soul or presence in the models, some joy of life.
Eolake said:
ReplyDelete"The editing is very important. And when I look at MET-art or FemJoy, I sense something missing. Some soul or presence in the models, some joy of life."
And it shows!
I know what you mean. I've seen the same women at DOMAI & Femjoy and they're not the same.
I especially recall one woman (whose name escapes me at the moment) whose pictures I saw at Femjoy after viewing her at DOMAI. I was saddened that she had bought into that world. The spark of true beauty I saw at DOMAI was indeed gone.
That is why I chose to support DOMAI and not any of the other sites.
Thanks, very kind of you to say.
ReplyDeleteYes! I agree with these comments- I only rarely visit sites other than domai for my dose of medicinal beauty (ie maybe every couple of years) and it serves to remind me why I stick with domai. The times I've seen girls I recognize from domai at other sites- the joy of life is missing both in the bearing of the girl, the whole image, and my viewing experience.
ReplyDeleteNot wanting to diverge from the original discussion too much...
Thanks again everyone. I like the idea of eye contact- but it is challenging! Looking into someones soul, and having their soul look back, that takes some bravery after years of conditioniong to hide ones true self...
No wonder there is such dramatic increase in prevalence of mental health issues "these days".
Just a thought from a European who spent some years in the States... back then I could say and mean "You're beautiful" and earn a real smile... over here, (almost) everybody is over-cautious... pity, that is...
ReplyDeleteEnjoy, Ulf
Ulf said...
ReplyDelete"...over here, (almost) everybody is over-cautious... pity, that is..."
Just clarifying, Ulf. "over here" meaning...Europe, yes?
My computer incident delayed these by blocking my drafts for a couple of weeks, but I think they'll still meet your interest.
ReplyDeleteAbout the Women's Movement :
That's just an extreme reaction to an extreme problem. Human nature is so made that any imbalance will typically be met simply with an opposite force, without much concern for the sensible goal of final balance. Take "morals", for instance: after centuries of strictness, the rigid frame was practically shattered, leading to a tendancy towards anarchy, and today we witness a "return to moral values" which is nothing more than a fancy new name for old prudishness. And people with common sense yearning for some logical balance remain forever frustrated.
Smothering the fair right of women for freedom and equal rights is pointless and stupid, but so is the symbolic castration of men by reverting the old inequities under the excuse/intimidation of "are you trying to be a women oppressor, mister?"
Men and women have strictly equal worth and rights, as a principle. But men and women are not, cannot be identical, immediately swappable. There are differences in biology, mentality, etc. These differences simply don't have to end up with unequal civic rights.
I'll open a door for a woman, or compliment her, simply because I consider myself a polite man. This means neither that I consider them as "the new de facto male power", nor that I deem them inferior, or even weaker. I just acknowledge that they still deserve some compensation for non-equal rights, in today's factual world, and also because it's goddamn normal to be a little caring! I also behave politely with guys, that doesn't make me a fag or a homophobe.
Sheesh! Lighten up, world! "Sometimes a banana is just a banana."
Just when did the world become so messed up, that only those with sense enough to think their beliefs and attitudes over, find themselves morally bullied by all extremes/extremists? Nowadays, the worst threat you can pose to narrow minds, is to not fit under any of their simplistic, black-and-white labels. Phooey, I say.
I'll be a decent, non-macho, well-mannered hetero, and that's that.
Peter's not the only one. I too, very frequently make a subtle, tasteful compliment in the form of a simple smile with eye contact. So far, no parents whose adorable little child I so complimented called the cops on me for paedophilia presumptions. ;-)
If you do it just right, that style of compliments will be enough for a woman you like to invite you into her bed. If you do it just right. But this means doing it with just the right attitude and mindset, respecting women without being overly shy either.
"You will nearly always get a smile in return."
And if you don't, pity the poor neurotic for being afraid of a world where not everything would be hostile.
As Dale Carnegie so aptly insisted on, the best compliment is one made purely for the sake of itself, NOT when you're hoping for anything in return. That's the difference with flattery, even when this flattery IS truthful.
Most balanced people will instinctively know when you're spontaneously sincere. Case in point: Roger Randolph's classic story. :-)
(Have you noticed how readily I'll compliment someone else's posts? Well, I call them the way I see them, 'tis all. Makes life so much more pleasant, when you spread smiles around you to anybody who deserved one.)
"Violence is related to love! Nudity is porn!"
Sadly, that's indeed a widespread perception.
"Is this a sign? Did Rome decline?"
Half-hearted LOL. Well spotted!
"In many places things are simply less safe today than a generation or two ago."
ReplyDeleteI'm not too sure about that. Methinks things are just much more publicized in the media, leading to the FEELING that danger has suddenly risen something awful, while in reality this attention has caused danger in the West to decrease.
Remember, there are many sneaky fearmongers who WANT you to feel afraid, for the benefit of their own agenda. Politicians, various "religious" cult gurus, friends of media moguls... Compliments are not the only way to manipulate and trick people!
Lebanon is MUCH safer today than in the "glorious" Eighties. And yet, emphasis on fear/danger in the political speeches is at an all-time high, and THAT is no illusion. The extremely enhanced TALK about threats everywhere, I mean.
The existence of said threats, on the other hand...
In most of Beirut, a guy can take a leisurely stroll in the middle of the night and genuinely FEEL that there aren't any bloodthirsty murderers lurking around every corner holding a cutlass in their teeth.
"[Women] long to be assured that they are beautiful, but some women feel that every compliment by a stranger is a threat to their safety and well-being."
A confused "client" is so much easier to manipulate into doing what you want them to. The fear-mongers are very successful these days.
They'll sell you cosmetics, clothes, surgery, trinkets, various "look-nice" goods, political programs... they've got many of us right where they want us. Ready to pay for the confidence we've lost within.
I say it's high time for some peaceful revolt against all this psychological violence, made to us, and turning its victims into so many tormentors.
Fear is the fertile soil for hate, violence, and generally Evil. Fear is precisely how people like the Nazis rose to insane, world-tearing power.
I can almost hear the Devil snickering in abject glee.
Like, whatever happened to Peace And Love, man? :-(
Well spotted there, MJ: large cities indeed help a lot in feeling alienated, isolated, "alone in a crowd". They help get people living in their lonely, de-humanized shell. And to be afraid.
The typical focus on individualism in the USA sure helps, too. In some other countries, people are more open, more spontaneously familiar, you can just start chatting with a total stranger on the bus or at the supermarket... when communication is easier, solitude is smaller, and fear lesser.
"Basically, in American cities, if you're a man, you're a "potential rapist/murderer."
Okay, now I just MUST tell this joke, which I seem to recall being a true story:
A woman went vacationing with her husband in their mountain log cabin. When they arrived, the husband was tired from driving and went for a nap. The wife decided to take their row-boat and go to the middle of the nearby lake for some leisurely reading.
While she was there enjoying the quiet, a ranger in his boat approached her, and the law man said:
- I'm sorry, Ma'am, but I'm going to have to give you a ticket. Fishing is strictly forbidden in this lake.
- But I wasn't fishing!
- You've got a full fishing equipment in this boat. So I'm writing you a ticket.
She argued in vain for a moment. Finally, she said in a very calm voice:
- Very well then, we'll have it your way. Help! Rape! Police!
- What the... I'm not raping you!
- Well, you sure have all the equipment with you!"
The ranger never wrote that ticket... }:-)
"Any clues on how to reconcile after having gone a bit too hard? :)"
ReplyDeleteHere's a small tip: DON'T even try if the woman you messed up with is the girlfriend of a super-criminal. In fact, don't ever try complimenting one. In fact, don't even make a compliment about one when you think she's not around. Trust me on that.
I learned this the hard way two weeks ago. Now my only hope of survival is that the Joker is unlikely to come to Lebanon because he's in bad terms with the Hezbollah.
Don't ask!
On the other hand, a fun-loving cartoon toonette, you can compliment all you want. Trust me on that one. :-)
"having someone to valdiate that look is a great pick-me-up for them"
In Italian, "pick-me-up" translates as "tiramisu". Really.
So, to be appreciated by a woman, make sure your compliments are non-fattening. :-)
Time for another anecdote.
Last week, I took the bus to Beirut to go shopping. On the road, the bus passed a big 4x4 driven by a guy with a woman in islamic veil sitting next to him. She was probably his mother, judging by her age, and only her face was left visible by the black fabric. (And still... she wore sunglasses!)
While we were passing them, the bus driver called to the man at the wheel, and said loud and clear: "Man, what a beautiful NINJA you got there!"
The people in the 4x4 actually laughed!
This just goes to prove one thing: if you compliment a Lebanese by saying "you people always have some amazing anecdote up your sleeve", it'll always be appreciated. Because it's true. :-)
"Picture Jimmy Stewart saying "you look nice today", and then Willem Dafoe saying it."
The Green Goblin complimenting on Peter Parker's fiancée? (shivers) Now THAT's a scary image! :o)
Many actors, like Dafoe, don't look too much like their original comic book model, but they fit the role so well you're left, like, "wow!"
I'm still not sure about a compliment from DeNiro, or Al Pacino... Creepy, or not creepy?
Phone in for your votes now! Only ¢10/mn. [Plus added costs with some operators. Void where prohibited and in Nevada.]
Roger pondered...
"I sometimes wonder if part of their response is the fact that I'm looking at their eyes."
Well, it is certainly more appreciated than if you stare at "all the wrong places". You're acknowledging them as persons, not mere pieces of meat.
That's always appreciated.
Then again, I've just blogged about some women who... just leave you wondering!!!
BTW, it's all genuine. Who in their right mind would DARE make up such a hoax?!? Not even TheOnion.com, I bet.
TC [Girl] probably joked...
"even IF I enjoyed *someone* oggling my *rack* (lol!), *I* would REALLY STRUGGLE to *appreciate* a look right at them from a stranger...especially after a wink!"
Yes, it's not as if in your avatar image you were pointing straight at the aforementioned spot yourself! LOL!
Then again, we're among friends here, so there are no strangers gazing at you. ;-)
(BTW, the winking emoticon here is by no means intended as offensive!!!)
"We [women] can *smell* B.S. a mile away!"
Yes, but dog poo is even smellier than bovine dung.
(Don't ask!)
"and...it would be NICE if MORE MEN were added to the "naked" equation, too!"
I'm assuming you don't mean naked men with knives. ;-)
Because that would REALLY explain the reactions of the women in TP's stories. I bet that's precisely the mental image they started picturing when they noticed a man was walking behind them... :-(
Helllloooo, nutty paranoid fantasies!
MJ to TC...
ReplyDelete"I am sorry that some men have taken it upon themselves to point out your ‘imperfections’."
Ditto. Some of us can be real insensitive idjits sometimes.
I once saw a guy on Jerry Springer, a real jerk, who treated his GF like a b**ch and called her one, an on the set he called her "fat ass". It so happens that the guy himself was about THREE TIMES her size!
MJ tantalized us...
"Perhaps some of the women I photograph will eventually want to share their images with the whole world, as the Domai women do."
They might be encouraged in that if you make them discover Domai?... :-)
About appreciation of the person and/or the vessel:
- I do believe, modesty aside, that I'm making my contribution to this cause, see the previous posts on my blog.
- The vessel is not who we are, but it is PART of ourselves. Body and mind are much more intimately related than we usually imagine.
This is not only through our self-image. Being sick makes us depressive, for example. And being seriously overweight, because of the sheer mass, is highly likely to make us feel burdened in everyday's life, both physically and psychologically, and feelings of beauty/ugliness notwithstanding. Anorexics don't just hate their body, they have a secret hatred towards their own, global self, which manifests through the self-destructive act of starving themselves. "If there's less of me, then there's less to hate. I dream of seeing it ALL gone."
Which is why we need to rethink our relationship to our bodies:
- Nobody's perfect, deal with it. In body like in soul, we're only human.
- Yet we DO need to take SOME care of ourselves. Just like self-betterment of the soul is a constant -and patient- effort, samely, there's nothing wrong with making some reasonable amount of effort to improve our bodies. All in good sense: not too much, not too little. You can love who you are and still try to make it better!
- My belief is that "convenience" plastic surgery, i.e. for those who've got nothing really wrong with their bodies, is essentially cheating, and first of all lying to yourself. It's just a way of changing yourself with no effort, and where it doesn't matter the most.
Who's sexier : a petite but confident girl, or an insecure inflated bimbo already planning her next "body job"?
I don't like inflatable dolls: the instant you touch them, they make this supremely annoying squeaky noise. ;-)
Metaphor fully intended!
Given that many here are relatively new, here's for reminders the small newsletter I myself contributed to the site three years ago:
http://www.domai.com/news/2006/03march-31/index.html
I think this fits the remarks of Akerbos perfectly.
"Those too thin or too bulky (meaning, BMI smaller than 18 or larger than, say, 27) are often perfectly confident - and some manage to have an air of handsomeness around them just because of that."
And this is most fortunate. :-)
Besides, the BMI is an indication. Not a most holiest number separating the normals from the freaks or anything of the sort.
Like I said, "healthy is beautiful, period". There are natural variations of healthy. There are divergences from even the MEDICAL norm that are reasonably healthy. And mental/psychological health is vital to beauty as well!!!
Besides, size isn't everything. Harmonious proportions are also very important.
I have an aunt who's been chubby for many years, and accepting herself that way. I once told her: "I much prefer a plump smile to a slender frown. So you're right, following too strict a diet isn't a good idea."
I ask you, what good is a physically superb bundle of nerves constantly on a diet? You'll never get to enjoy her company!
I suggest reading this very talented nudist webcomic for a good sample of varied body types, many outside official canons, which sometimes are still quite nice to look at. And as for those who are not "pretty", well, I still think that they help a lot teach acceptance of everybody.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, you might be responsible if you turn extremely obese, but who can avoid getting old? Nobody. Should we then start hating ourselves a little more with each passing day? Preposterous!
The Far East knows quite well the value of a person that can come with advanced age.
Sure, it's not very sexy. That's because we are naturally programmed to feel sexual attraction towards bodies of adequate reproductive age. Doesn't mean the others are necessarily UGLY. Their interest just lies elsewhere.
Let us acknowledge that sexuality always shapes our perception of beauty, even when it is innocent Domai nudes. Then we'll gain a great inner peace that comes from the gnôthi seautôn ("know thyself").
"If we could ALL just be our *authentic selves* then, perhaps, the smoke screens would begin to clear"
Much of the problems I've encountered in my life came from precisely that: I hate lying about who I am, and I get hated by the uptight Society for not being enough of a hypocrite.
Sure, I'm not ALL of myself in ALL circumstances, everything has its place and time. But "the System" would want us to learn to be complete fakes when it is... "socially adequate".
What kind of a monster is such a Society that demands us to completely pervert our true nature? Away from me, you false idol!
Nowadays, when I find that I cannot be my true self in a given company, and that being myself would just cause trouble, I leave.
Let the smoke screens fill their OWN lungs with nicotine and diesel particles, but me, I need to breathe.
And I just couldn't stand being liked, even less loved, for someone which I am not. Call me childishly stubborn.
TC thinks...
"ALL people need to be acknowledged and have practiced it my entire life."
You're a woman after my own heart. Seriously.
I try to focus on giving credit/praise to those who often get overlooked. Like children, introverts, various "outcasts".
Might explain why I have several gay friends, here in conservative Lebanon. :`)
"Do unto others as you would have them do to you"
To pursue on what I was just writing, Oscar Wilde, notorious homosexual, once wrote:
"Don't do unto others as you would like to be done to you: you might not have identical tastes!"
That can be very true... ;-)
Jimbo feels...
"many of the [Domai] poses don't seem to fit the philosophy, they seem overtly sexual and forced."
No offense, but you probably should look at more mainstream porn to see how different it is from Domai. "Overtly sexual"? "Forced"? I'm... not sure we're talking about the same Domai here.
Domai girls simply don't bother to try and HIDE their private parts like in softcore erotica or "artistic" nudes. They don't emphasize them either, as in porno, "soft" or otherwise. They're just, as they are officially -and aptly- defined, "simple nudes". Adorably carefree.
My feeling, Jimbo, is that perhaps the problems lies not with the attitude of the girls on Domai, but in that of the beholder, namely here, you.
Just a hypothesis to ponder. Sometimes, what bothers us only does so "because it's us".
Like that French love song goes, "because you were you, because I was me". Love, hate... it's SO intensely related to our deep selves, isn't it?
"when I look at MET-art or FemJoy, I sense something missing. Some soul or presence in the models, some joy of life."
ReplyDeleteWhat's typically missing by contrast to Domai is "the laughing eyes"...
Yesterday afternoon, while channel surfing, I came upon re-runs of Charlie's Angels. Honestly, I was stunned.
Sure, it's retro. But it still holds the road as far as the plot goes. I really appreciated how THESE Angels are not invincible super-powered kung-fu champions, and when in mortal danger, they'll scream in fear. It's... realistic. They feel like REAL persons. Brave enough to keep facing danger that really scares them sometimes.
Equally stunning, was how real their BEAUTY felt. There was one scene with a cutie going to the beach for surfing. Absolutely not the "stretched vine" silhouette of fashion shows. Not tall. Full thighs. But not the least bit "fat". Just NORMAL, and absolutely lovely. And her face... oh my! Adorable. Domai with a swimsuit and T-shirt.
Women displaying the beauty with which they were born. Absolutely not modified by some defiling surgery. Retaining their little imperfections (mainly Farah Fawcett!) which only add to their charm, because they spoil nothing, but testify of their authenticity and give them personality, making them unique. Persons, not silicone dolls fresh out of the assembly chain.
Don't get me wrong, Miss Diaz, Barrymore and Liu are a pleasure to watch, and the same goes for their modern Hollywoodian spectacular action movies. But the originals... they felt TRUE. Genuine.
Also, the same evening, I watched the most excellent show hosted by Patrick Sébastien on french TV, Le Plus Grand Cabaret du Monde. Worldwide talent shows, magicians, acrobats, etc... from Las Vegas to Russia, China and Africa.
In the intro of this show, the man always makes his entrance surrounded by lovely topless cabaret beauties, for no other reason than the pleasure of it and the cabaret theme. These girls are... in a word, "wow!". They're the ones drawing so many tourists to Paris [Moulin Rouge, le Crazy Horse, etc.], so you can inagine. And all with *perfect* bosoms... and natural, too! A pleasure to contemplate.
But guess what? I soon found myself paying attention to their SMILES. (And I told my Mom: "My friend Eolake wouldn't forgive me for that." ;-) They were, and it struck me, the opposite of the standardized airheads is "beauty pageants", who display that mandatory stiff grin devoid of any feeling, "for the camera". (Just like if you tried to show a grin right now, because you're being paid to pretend.) But those beautiful women? Whom, by the way, are NOT the same format as fashion models? They had TRUE smiles. Some grinned, some just smiled, and it wasn't constant. Sometimes there was just a hint of a smile. Faces alive, welcoming you, but not overdoing it. Behaving NORMALLY.
I'm sorry -to my fellow "typical" guys- to confess it, but I had these half-dozen women, unofficially the prettiest in the world, standing there for me in nothing but a thong and some feathers for a brief couple of minutes, and all I could do was gaze at their faces.
I think that's a compliment they would be happy to hear... :-)
I can definitely relate to this. Part of the reason I was regarded as a creep in high school is that I would openly compliment girls' beauty.
ReplyDeleteYes, even as few adults are mature enough to understand this, I'd imagine almost *no* high-schoolers to be.
ReplyDelete