It seems these days that being gay is a mainstream and open thing. But I think really not. Because, look at Hollywood. How many actors do we know who are openly gay? I can't think of any at all. And yet by the laws of statistics there must surely be hundreds.
I'm guessing that the belief and feeling (rightly or wrongly) in Hollywood is that the anti-gay feelings in the country are still so strong that coming out as gay is very likely to ruin your career.
I was watching "The Italian Job" this weekend, and was noticing the reaction to the gay characters in it. They were just there, doing there thing and not really being made a big deal of, apart from one being named "Camp Freddy". When Croker is buying his shirts he refers to the salesman as "love", but that's more of a regional address.
ReplyDeleteCompared with Torchwood where everyone is at least bi-curious-curious.
Mind you US pop-culture has its gay characters as predominantly flamers still, as in Will and Grace, a role which Britain backed away from after it's 70's portrayal of Mr Humphries in are you being served.
I'm sure cottaging is rife, and the attendant homophobia, but at least the UK seems to seldom have cases of "queer bashing", unlike the 70's.
Being in the Bay Area it's a different demographic. I wonder if LA is really that different.
Open gay actors? Ellen Degeneres, and her latest. Graham Chapman, Kenneth Williams, Scott Cappuro, Scott Thompson?
Ellen I saw more as a comedian. The others don't ring too many bells with me.
ReplyDeleteScott Thompson from "Kids in the Hall", also a good writer.
ReplyDeleteGraham Chapman was a member of Monty Pythons Flying Circus.
Kenneth Williams" of "Carry On" fame. Even had a fling with Joe Orton I believe.
Scott Capurro sometime actor and comic. SF not LA/Hollywood though.
David Hyde Pierce (Niles Crane from Frasier) just announced a few weeks ago that he had married his long-time (male) partner.
ReplyDeleteI have heard of a bunch of actors through the years who were openly gay, but I guess it doesn't stay on my mind for long. Maybe that is why there aren't many I can think of at the moment.
David Hyde Pierce
ReplyDeleteWhy'd he bother? His coming out was about as much of a shock as that kid from Who's the Boss?
I'm not sure dead people (Chapman) count. I can think of one not listed - Rupert Everett. I haven't seen him in much. He was on a couple of episodes of Boston Legal and played Sherlock Holmes in a TV movie. (Sadly only once, as in my opinion he's the best Holmes since Jeremy Brett, and possibly could have been even better.)
Coming out now is no longer going to be a career-wrecking move but I'm not sure it's exactly no big deal. Not yet anyway.
Oh, and Neil Patrick Harris (Doogie Howser/ Dr. Horrible).
ReplyDeleteHere's a start:
ReplyDeleteWikipedia
Gay City USA
Google
Thanks.
ReplyDeleteNot many names I recognize, but still, an impressive list.
Oh, and Neil Patrick Harris (Doogie Howser/ Dr. Horrible).
ReplyDeleteNot Doogie! What the fuck--?! Makes his Bizarro World self from the Harold and Kumar movies kind of a kick in the nuts.
Ah, well, a queer among such an odd bunch as the Monty Python is practically mandatory. I mean, all these guys acted funny. Pun intended.
ReplyDeleteKent,
Pretty brave of you to openly admit you're a homo-non-phobe. ;-)
Because that's exactly what you're revealing there. Just like me, you "just forget" such stuff. Because deep down, you don't care.
"He [...] played Sherlock Holmes in a TV movie."
Well, they DO say that Sherlock Holmes is a certifed gay character...
(At the very least, a misogynist.)
@ Anon,
Yep, I'd say Google and Wikipedia are "a start" allright. :-)
Goes without saying. "And yet, sometimes it still needs saying", as I always say. ;-)
Because that's exactly what you're revealing there. Just like me, you "just forget" such stuff. Because deep down, you don't care.
ReplyDeleteIt seemed like he might be trying too hard. It's difficult to say when you can't see expression or hear tone of voice, but a lot of people these days try so damn hard to let everyone know how open-minded and tolerant and accepting they are. It's kind of sickening sometimes. If Kent's the real deal that's good but so many deep down probably aren't. It's just fashionable these days, like a reversal of the way it used to be. Fashionable in some parts anyway.
Well, they DO say that Sherlock Holmes is a certifed gay character...
(At the very least, a misogynist.)
Holmes didn't like women, but not because he thought they were inferior, and not because he was a fag. People will try that one on any two guys living together. When Bert and Ernie aren't safe, where are we?! Watson was married twice, but I guess that must have been a cover. There were long stretches of years when he didn't share the rooms at Baker Street. (Which is strange because in the first story, Holmes needs a roomie in order to make the rent. When Watson later moves out, Holmes doesn't get anyone new. Maybe he'd come into money.)
Isn't it funny that people not only worry about who is gay, but they worry about whether other people really care or not. :)
ReplyDeleteHolmes was a cocaine user; injecting it when he was bored because of having no case to work on. He was a rather "cold" character; not really caring about who he helped by solving the case, but only caring about the thrill and stimulation he got from it. I guess he didn't find women stimulating. He wasn't doing it right.
I guess he didn't find women stimulating. He wasn't doing it right.
ReplyDeleteThere are real-life people who don't care about sex.
Isn't it funny that people not only worry about who is gay, but they worry about whether other people really care or not. :)
ReplyDeleteAn attempt at avoidance, that was.
Most people don't worry about that, but some people do kind of get tired of people who try too hard, who are desperate to be acknowledged for their open-mindedness, their enlightenment. It's sickening. I Steve Buscemi's character in Ghost World saying that people today still hate each other, they're just better at hiding it. Even if being gay has become more accepted, hatred of them has no more gone away than has racism. I'd also say that, even for the most "enlightened," probably the idea of gay men fucking each other is still pretty gross. Also while I wouldn't take a religious standpoint on this, it is not unnatural in that it exists in many species besides our own but is not exactly an evolutionary adaptation that gives any advantage.
I really don't care if someone is gay or not. Since I am not gay, I don't really wish to watch 2 guys getting it on. But I don't really like to watch a man & woman either. Now, 2 girls is different.
ReplyDeleteI certainly don't hate people based on who they love. If I do hate people, it is for doing things that harm those who don't deserve it. Like people who work in or for government or who commit freelance "crime". Otherwise, what you do is your business.
"Holmes didn't like women, but [...] not because he was a fag."
ReplyDeleteDon't spoil our fun, please. "Spot the fag" is the popular sport at the moment. (And who cares about a little collateral damage? It's FUN!)
Besides, it's trendy-sounding to up and pretend you "know" some "juicy bit" like that in a jet-set conversation. It makes you sound cool at a Hollywood soirée. Doesn't really matter whether it's invented. (So long as it increases your chances to shine and score!!!)
"When Bert and Ernie aren't safe, where are we?!"
Well... if they both aren't safe from each other, that's their own private business, isn't it?
Where are we? Up Gordon's sleeve, I'd wager! ;-)
"When Watson later moves out, Holmes doesn't get anyone new. Maybe he'd come into money."
Either he's found himself a sugar daddy, or that detectiving started to pay off.
"I'd also say that, even for the most "enlightened," probably the idea of gay men fucking each other is still pretty gross."
It is. For any hetero. (Even worse would be the idea of STRAIGHT men fucking each other!!!)
Not very surprising, when you see the shuddering reaction of children (and even early teenagers) towards all sex, intimate kissing, and even hugs or holding hands sometimes.
Close contact that doesn't fit in with our own mental readiness for it, that's always instinctively icky. Doesn't mean we should make a law against it. Consenting adults in private, it's always their own goddamn business. (Pardon my French.)
After all, a baby's birth, although much hyped with balloons and candy and all, is actually anything BUT cute pink cotton clouds. Messy, squirty, drippy, screamy... delivery's a pretty gross thing. We're all happy to exist, but I'm assuming here that we wouldn't really like to view the "Pamela and Tommy Lee" tape of how we came into existence.
Some things are necessary, even beautiful, yet not always fit for public display.
"it is not unnatural in that it exists in many species besides our own"
Boldly put, but adequately said. :-)
"But I don't really like to watch a man & woman either. Now, 2 girls is different."
Why, Kent, I had no idea you were a lesbian!
That avatar photo of yours does look kinda butch though, doesn't it? ;-)
Doesn't mean we should make a law against it. Consenting adults in private, it's always their own goddamn business.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't suggesting we make laws against it. Just that while the majority of people today are happy enough to let consenting adults do what they want to do in the sack, when it comes down to it even the most "enlightened" of us straight dudes is going to be grossed out by gay sex. Unless, as Kent said, it's two chicks. That of course is different! ;-)
Either he's found himself a sugar daddy, or that detectiving started to pay off.
I guess it must've, although it's mentioned at least once that Holmes took cases based on interest, and not on financial reward. Kind of a weird way to run a business, especially since as he said he relies on it for his "bread and cheese."
If they were gay, Mrs. Watson maybe was Watson's beard. She died, after all. Maybe she found out--? Holmes never took another roomie because he wanted the place to be their love nest.
Actually although I despise this fashion these days of calling gay any characters of the same sex who happen to be roommates, it would be funny to do a Holmes story where they are in fact gay, and all the trouble they go through hiding it in late Victorian England.
The two lesbians who live next door gave me a Rolex for my birthday. That was nice, but I think they misunderstood me when they asked me what I would like and I told them "I wanna watch!"
ReplyDeleteW.A.T.C.H. : What About Two Cute Hotties?
"You can just call me... Ivan."
You know, about the two chicks thing... I think I too have some lesbian tendancies!
ReplyDelete[Aaaahhhh!] There, I've said it! My, that felt SO liberating!
"Bread and cheese", I've never heard of THAT position...
A rubenesque lesbian sandwiched between two gay guys, maybe?
"it would be funny to do a Holmes story where they are in fact gay, and all the trouble they go through hiding it in late Victorian England."
Cue fanfiction slash writing contest! Any candidates? :-)
[Thinking] Now we need an adequate web page to host it...
Here's one. George Takei, the man who played "Mr. Sulu" in the Star Trek original series, is not only gay, he's also married. He and his longtime partner Brad Altman got married in 2008 (California law allows this).
ReplyDeleteM.A.T.T.: sell the Rolex, and you can find many girls for that kind of money to say "me let you watch me love her looooong time."
ReplyDeleteH.A.C.H.A.C.H.A.! Hugely Amusing, Completely Hilarious Act, Continue Humoring the Assembly! :-D
ReplyDeleteNow I'm H.O.T. : Horny Over Titillation.
"You can just call me... Ivan."