That table would've given HRM Queen Victoria a SECOND reason to cover the LEG of tables with little skirts. Uhm... except then she would've had to use dresses. :-)
That table seems like the kind of trash Hef would like. He has bad taste and a frat boy mentality.
I seem to remember a post a while ago about Hef and his bad taste and emotion immaturity. Then this type of thing is praised by the same Great Dane we know and love. Weird!
If they're selling, then who cares about critics. But if not, the public has spoken! Of course, we've all seen that Chistmas Story movie. The leg lamp. This is about on par with that, artistically. A wannabe aesthlete would run away from that thing at top speed and not look back.
Some of the comments on the "Torso Table" seem directed at the "unclothedness" of it. Considering the other site by the author of this one, wow. Guess some of you slept though Art History 101.
That segues into my level of emotional maturity, as well as Hugh Hefners. Well, I don't mind being associated with him, and Eolake may not think he's emotionally mature, but he should acknowledge some debt to Hugh. Art 101, or Domai. Ad Hominium attacks add so much to a conversation.
Maria, this line: "aesthlete would run away...", intended or not is great. At least you're sneering at the table from an "artistic" vein, though I'm the one who is bleeding. Whew. :-)
Pascal, I've read you, I know you can throw harder than that. "Rocks". :-)
Ad Hominium attacks add so much to a conversation.
Those aren't really ad hominem attacks. That's probably one of those most overused and poorly understood Latin phrases. Apart from that, I'd love to hear a defence of that table. All artists after all can defend their work, otherwise it's meaningless.
Yes, I guess without Playboy, nudity/erotica would still be even deeper in the sleaze than it is now. There's been a lot of progress.
Without Playboy it might not have had the chance to get into sleaze. Playboy may have opened the whole thing up. I don't know if it had that kind of influence, but the timing is right.
If you tell me the table is poorly constructed, or badly designed, and have some basis for those assertions, fine, let us argue that; but saying that I'm at the emotional age of 14, based on a piece of art, does seem "to the man" and not the discussion. Give me a clearer definition, and we can argue that.
I am putting together a defense of the table, and I'll post it or a link to it when I'm done, but after a long day, I don't have the energy to do it properly. I can and will defend the table, but your assertion that all artists can defend their work, otherwise it is meaningless, is wrong. Not everything can be put into words; if it could all be explained in words, why paint, play, perform, act, sing at all
I may personally disagree with much of the so-called Playboy philosophy, but I'm not going to deny the impact that the magazine had, and the voice it gave to many artists, activists, etc. etc. including "feminism". I only read it for the articles any way. :-)
I need to add a few thoughts: the "defense" of the table is going to be more a basis of design influences, and design imperatives, and history, than any defense. It doesn't need a defense, what is this, 1984?
Unfortunately, I'm up against one of the most prolific artists of all time, Mr. Anonymous.And the mysterious, Jimbo. I should get a handicap, to borrow a term from golf.
My only real complaint about Playboy is the enormous amount of "plastic" breasts. I don't know where the bare pudenda come from.
"your assertion that all artists can defend their work, otherwise it is meaningless, is wrong. Not everything can be put into words; if it could all be explained in words, why paint, play, perform, act, sing at all"
I agree. There was a long discussion about that recently.
Jimbo said... "All artists after all can defend their work, otherwise it's meaningless."
I have been meaning to write and say that I totally disagree w/what you are writing, Jimbo. I don't think an artist EVER needs to "defend their work [OR] otherwise...". It is their expression/creation. *It is what it is.* If someone is curious as to how the artist came to the creation that they did, then I think that it is great to ask them about that. But to have to "defend" it? No. That is totally ridiculous. It's ART, for crying out loud!!
It's like having to defend an opinion: everyone has one and...what someone else thinks of *my* opinion is...none of my business.
Going back to the old *Mother's Proverb*: "If you can't find anything nice to say, then...DON'T BOTHER SAYING ANYTHING...at ALL!" (Anon!!) What a concept, hey?!
I don't think Bron *deserves* to be verbally *slapped around* just because he created a table w/subject matter that he enjoys...much like the rest of *all y'all* do! lol!
Let him and his table be, if you don't have anything nice to say about it! Sheesh!
Bron: Thanks for including the link to how you created it. Your work looks very much like a labor of love! :-)
Well, Bron, I didn't actually say you had the emotional age of 14. If you check the above messages you'll see that quite clearly. You responded to that anonymous message in a humorous way, as had Pascal and TC Girl, and as did I when I suggested 12 instead.
As for whether an artist should be able to defend their work in words, of course they should and must, and this has always been the way it has worked. It's only the lazy who argue otherwise, pretending that their creative vision simply beyond words. It's funny how so many great artists have managed to do it. When Picasso was asked what his art was about, he didn't just shrug and say "I dunno."
Don't put me in the same category. For one thing I don't pretend to be an artist, or to even know much about art, but I do know that they are usually expected to be able to explain their intentions in creating a piece of art, why they did what they did, etc. That's pretty much standard.
What I've quoted above is unworthy of you and more in line with someone Anonymous him/herself might say.
"That table seems like the kind of trash Hef would like. He has bad taste and a frat boy mentality." [A-hem!] Actually, Hef is from another "adult" videogame than mine. Playboy : the Mansion doesn't have frat houses and tasteless immature pranks. MINE does. So, not to boss you around, but maybe you'd better check your references again. (And please don't hit on the little guy, I bruise easily.)
Ah, the good moments we had together, Marylin and I. I'm forever thankful to the Hefster for that first Playboy issue. A classic!
"I love tits, but I think they work better with the rest of the fabulous female form." As an amateur photographer of babes who made a mint in my sophomore year, I must concur, sir. Miss Bilzarbra even paid me for the professional quality photos I took for her actress portfolio. :-)
"A wannabe aesthlete would run away from that thing at top speed and not look back." Sure. But a REAL aesthete, like my uncle Larry, would just flip out his checkbook from his polyester suit in a very classy gesture.
"I'm forever thankful to the Hefster for that first Playboy issue. A classic!" Larry, I think one of your GFs, Luba Licious, was the centerfold for a more recent Playboy issue, a couple of years ago.
"Apart from that, I'd love to hear a defence of that table." Well, it stands stable, and has a flat upper surface to conveniently support stuff you might want to put on it. As a table, it works just great. Okay, so it's not very big, but it's got nice curves where it counts. ;-)
"Without Playboy it might not have had the chance to get into sleaze." Optimistic words if ever I've heard any! Oh ye of little faith in the unstoppable Power of Perv. "Unstoppable Power of Perv": say it 5 times fast. I said "say it", not "spray it"!
"I am putting together a defense of the table" Need a militia to garnish those walls and watchtowers? It's sales season in Lebanon this summer! I guarantee, your defenses will be stronger than just deep fences! [Humor me, I'm still working on my slogan.]
"I can and will defend the table" Heck, with boobies like these, count me in!
"I only read it for the articles any way." What ELSE would there be to read? :-) (Besides, who can read a centerfold? ;-)
"DON'T BOTHER SAYING ANYTHING...at ALL!" (Anon!!) What a concept, hey?!" Ach, ya, you're right, "it's a concept". As vee like to say in der artiztik zirkles.
"Let him and his table be, if you don't have anything nice to say about it!" Damn right, what they to in private is their own business, period. Who are we to judge what we haven't tried, what we haven't lived, what we haven't felt?
When Picasso was asked what his art was about, he didn't just shrug and say "I dunno." He could have. I can just picture this from Dali !!! :-) Art is in the eye of the beholder, yes or @#$%& ?
Pascal, You forgot to mention that I'm available. :-))) And I guarantee, I absolutely don't nag. Or gossip. Or spend. Or cheat around. Or compare MY wood to yours. Or wreck the car. Or invite my Mom over. Or watch soaps all day. Nothing but qualities, really. BUY ME! BUY ME!
'When Picasso was asked what his art was about, he didn't just shrug and say "I dunno."'
... yes, actually, thinking about it, I could easily imagine Picasso being one of those guys who would not waste a single breath trying to explain his art. He would just make it.
Spontaneous comment from my nephew (5 years):
ReplyDelete"A table with a chest!"
:-)
Thanks Eolake!
ReplyDeleteBron
That table would look good in a frat house, but nowhere else.
ReplyDeleteHeh-heh-heh! (snort) Yes, a frat house. That's a frat the way I like them, eh-heh-heh-heh!
ReplyDeleteThat table would've given HRM Queen Victoria a SECOND reason to cover the LEG of tables with little skirts.
ReplyDeleteUhm... except then she would've had to use dresses. :-)
Pascal said...
ReplyDelete"Uhm... except then she would've had to use dresses. :-)"
...w/a *uni-breast* dart, in the middle! lol! ;-)
I always suspected Bron suffered arrested development. He's stuck at the emotional age of 14.
ReplyDeleteHEY! I can't let you say such a thing about the Bronster!
ReplyDeleteIf anybody's emotional development stopped at 14 here, it's MINE.
TC,
I'me reminded of that mutant hooker in Total Recall. You know, the one with THREE breasts.
Just what I'd need to fit my diphallia.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePascal said...
ReplyDelete"TC,I'm reminded of that mutant hooker in Total Recall. You know, the one with THREE breasts.
Just what I'd need to fit my diphallia."
There's a triple-breasted woman in 'Good Luck Chuck' too. :-)
Well,
ReplyDelete14 is wrong! Those who know me figure 13 tops.
Bron
Hah! See? TOLD ya!
ReplyDeleteOoh ya! Who's the man? Who's the man? Unh!
BTW, Bron, that chair of yours? It rocks, dude! Seriously.
14 is wrong! Those who know me figure 13 tops.
ReplyDeleteI'd have guessed 12.
That table seems like the kind of trash Hef would like. He has bad taste and a frat boy mentality.
ReplyDeleteThat table seems like the kind of trash Hef would like. He has bad taste and a frat boy mentality.
ReplyDeleteI seem to remember a post a while ago about Hef and his bad taste and emotion immaturity. Then this type of thing is praised by the same Great Dane we know and love. Weird!
Well, you'll notice I put the rocking chair first, I actually like that one better.
ReplyDeleteI love tits, but I think they work better with the rest of the fabulous female form.
PFUI
ReplyDeleteEvery body's a critic.
If they're selling, then who cares about critics. But if not, the public has spoken! Of course, we've all seen that Chistmas Story movie. The leg lamp. This is about on par with that, artistically. A wannabe aesthlete would run away from that thing at top speed and not look back.
ReplyDeleteSome of the comments on the "Torso Table" seem directed at the "unclothedness" of it. Considering the other site by the author of this one, wow. Guess some of you slept though Art History 101.
ReplyDeleteThat segues into my level of emotional maturity, as well as Hugh Hefners. Well, I don't mind being associated with him, and Eolake may not think he's emotionally mature, but he should acknowledge some debt to Hugh. Art 101, or Domai. Ad Hominium attacks add so much to a conversation.
Maria, this line: "aesthlete would run away...", intended or not is great. At least you're sneering at the table from an "artistic" vein, though I'm the one who is bleeding. Whew. :-)
Pascal, I've read you, I know you can throw harder than that. "Rocks". :-)
Bron, who didn't sleep through art history.
"Eolake may not think he's emotionally mature, but he should acknowledge some debt to Hugh."
ReplyDeleteYes, I guess without Playboy, nudity/erotica would still be even deeper in the sleaze than it is now. There's been a lot of progress.
Ad Hominium attacks add so much to a conversation.
ReplyDeleteThose aren't really ad hominem attacks. That's probably one of those most overused and poorly understood Latin phrases. Apart from that, I'd love to hear a defence of that table. All artists after all can defend their work, otherwise it's meaningless.
Yes, I guess without Playboy, nudity/erotica would still be even deeper in the sleaze than it is now. There's been a lot of progress.
Without Playboy it might not have had the chance to get into sleaze. Playboy may have opened the whole thing up. I don't know if it had that kind of influence, but the timing is right.
Jimbo,
ReplyDeleteIf you tell me the table is poorly constructed, or badly designed, and have some basis for those assertions, fine, let us argue that; but saying that I'm at the emotional age of 14, based on a piece of art, does seem "to the man" and not the discussion. Give me a clearer definition, and we can argue that.
I am putting together a defense of the table, and I'll post it or a link to it when I'm done, but after a long day, I don't have the energy to do it properly. I can and will defend the table, but your assertion that all artists can defend their work, otherwise it is meaningless, is wrong. Not everything can be put into words; if it could all be explained in words, why paint, play, perform, act, sing at all
I may personally disagree with much of the so-called Playboy philosophy, but I'm not going to deny the impact that the magazine had, and the voice it gave to many artists, activists, etc. etc. including "feminism". I only read it for the articles any way. :-)
I need to add a few thoughts: the "defense" of the table is going to be more a basis of design influences, and design imperatives, and history, than any defense. It doesn't need a defense, what is this, 1984?
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, I'm up against one of the most prolific artists of all time, Mr. Anonymous.And the mysterious, Jimbo. I should get a handicap, to borrow a term from golf.
My only real complaint about Playboy is the enormous amount of "plastic" breasts. I don't know where the bare pudenda come from.
"your assertion that all artists can defend their work, otherwise it is meaningless, is wrong. Not everything can be put into words; if it could all be explained in words, why paint, play, perform, act, sing at all"
ReplyDeleteI agree. There was a long discussion about that recently.
Here, a sort of explanation:
ReplyDeletehttp://frame-notes.blogspot.com/2009/07/torso-table-explanation-of-process-and.html
Jimbo said...
ReplyDelete"All artists after all can defend their work, otherwise it's meaningless."
I have been meaning to write and say that I totally disagree w/what you are writing, Jimbo. I don't think an artist EVER needs to "defend their work [OR] otherwise...". It is their expression/creation. *It is what it is.* If someone is curious as to how the artist came to the creation that they did, then I think that it is great to ask them about that. But to have to "defend" it? No. That is totally ridiculous. It's ART, for crying out loud!!
It's like having to defend an opinion: everyone has one and...what someone else thinks of *my* opinion is...none of my business.
Going back to the old *Mother's Proverb*: "If you can't find anything nice to say, then...DON'T BOTHER SAYING ANYTHING...at ALL!" (Anon!!) What a concept, hey?!
I don't think Bron *deserves* to be verbally *slapped around* just because he created a table w/subject matter that he enjoys...much like the rest of *all y'all* do! lol!
Let him and his table be, if you don't have anything nice to say about it! Sheesh!
Bron: Thanks for including the link to how you created it. Your work looks very much like a labor of love! :-)
Well, Bron, I didn't actually say you had the emotional age of 14. If you check the above messages you'll see that quite clearly. You responded to that anonymous message in a humorous way, as had Pascal and TC Girl, and as did I when I suggested 12 instead.
ReplyDeleteAs for whether an artist should be able to defend their work in words, of course they should and must, and this has always been the way it has worked. It's only the lazy who argue otherwise, pretending that their creative vision simply beyond words. It's funny how so many great artists have managed to do it. When Picasso was asked what his art was about, he didn't just shrug and say "I dunno."
And the mysterious, Jimbo.
ReplyDeleteDon't put me in the same category. For one thing I don't pretend to be an artist, or to even know much about art, but I do know that they are usually expected to be able to explain their intentions in creating a piece of art, why they did what they did, etc. That's pretty much standard.
What I've quoted above is unworthy of you and more in line with someone Anonymous him/herself might say.
Jimbo,
ReplyDelete"mysterious, Jimbo. I should get a handicap"
Sorry, no offense was intended, as that also was an attempt at humour.
TC [Girl] You're welcome, and thank you!
"That table seems like the kind of trash Hef would like. He has bad taste and a frat boy mentality."
ReplyDelete[A-hem!] Actually, Hef is from another "adult" videogame than mine. Playboy : the Mansion doesn't have frat houses and tasteless immature pranks. MINE does.
So, not to boss you around, but maybe you'd better check your references again.
(And please don't hit on the little guy, I bruise easily.)
Ah, the good moments we had together, Marylin and I. I'm forever thankful to the Hefster for that first Playboy issue. A classic!
"I love tits, but I think they work better with the rest of the fabulous female form."
As an amateur photographer of babes who made a mint in my sophomore year, I must concur, sir.
Miss Bilzarbra even paid me for the professional quality photos I took for her actress portfolio. :-)
"A wannabe aesthlete would run away from that thing at top speed and not look back."
Sure.
But a REAL aesthete, like my uncle Larry, would just flip out his checkbook from his polyester suit in a very classy gesture.
"I'm forever thankful to the Hefster for that first Playboy issue. A classic!"
ReplyDeleteLarry,
I think one of your GFs, Luba Licious, was the centerfold for a more recent Playboy issue, a couple of years ago.
"Apart from that, I'd love to hear a defence of that table."
Well, it stands stable, and has a flat upper surface to conveniently support stuff you might want to put on it. As a table, it works just great.
Okay, so it's not very big, but it's got nice curves where it counts. ;-)
"Without Playboy it might not have had the chance to get into sleaze."
Optimistic words if ever I've heard any!
Oh ye of little faith in the unstoppable Power of Perv.
"Unstoppable Power of Perv": say it 5 times fast. I said "say it", not "spray it"!
"I am putting together a defense of the table"
Need a militia to garnish those walls and watchtowers? It's sales season in Lebanon this summer!
I guarantee, your defenses will be stronger than just deep fences!
[Humor me, I'm still working on my slogan.]
"I can and will defend the table"
Heck, with boobies like these, count me in!
"I only read it for the articles any way."
What ELSE would there be to read? :-)
(Besides, who can read a centerfold? ;-)
"DON'T BOTHER SAYING ANYTHING...at ALL!" (Anon!!) What a concept, hey?!"
Ach, ya, you're right, "it's a concept".
As vee like to say in der artiztik zirkles.
"Let him and his table be, if you don't have anything nice to say about it!"
Damn right, what they to in private is their own business, period. Who are we to judge what we haven't tried, what we haven't lived, what we haven't felt?
When Picasso was asked what his art was about, he didn't just shrug and say "I dunno."
He could have. I can just picture this from Dali !!! :-)
Art is in the eye of the beholder, yes or @#$%& ?
Jimbo said...
ReplyDelete"For one thing I don't pretend to be an artist"
Who's pretending? Not me.
I'm no pretender.
I'm just too modest to brag, that's all.
Pascal,
ReplyDeleteYou forgot to mention that I'm available. :-)))
And I guarantee, I absolutely don't nag. Or gossip. Or spend. Or cheat around. Or compare MY wood to yours. Or wreck the car. Or invite my Mom over. Or watch soaps all day. Nothing but qualities, really.
BUY ME! BUY ME!
'When Picasso was asked what his art was about, he didn't just shrug and say "I dunno."'
ReplyDelete... yes, actually, thinking about it, I could easily imagine Picasso being one of those guys who would not waste a single breath trying to explain his art. He would just make it.