There's a famous book out about how it takes 10,000 hours of practice to become good at anything in the arts. I think that's fair.
And this is before you start trying to promote yourself and try selling your stuff and yourself.
So doing all that and supporting yourself is a full time job. "Full time" meaning days, evenings, and weekends.
Add to that a boyfriend or girlfriend, and it becomes way more difficult yet.
Add children, and it's basically impossible.
And yet most of thinks that getting a "significant other" and getting children is something we simply are "supposed" to do. It's simply part of what you do in life, isn't it?
Is it? Or is it optional for somebody who has other plans?
You're certainly not "supposed" to. Sure, some people's jaws drop to the floor when I tell them I simply don't give a damn about that sort of stuff, but they do realise that there's more to life than reproducing...
ReplyDeleteIt boggles my mind how lost some people feel when they don't do what everybody else is doing.
ReplyDeleteI was born in 1932, and since then, the world's population has tripled.
ReplyDeleteWe're breeding ourselves out of a
planet to live on here. Think about that for a moment. This is something which can't continue indefinitely.
Jeremy, yes, that is indeed a very interesting phenomenon.
ReplyDeleteI'd even say it goes further: for many people, doing something off-road never even enters their mind.
It's either because of where I am, or when I am, but "significant other" pressure from peers just didn't seem to be as strong when I was growing up as cliches of other times indicated.
ReplyDeleteI used to have a reasonable sized group of friends, they all met at varying times, but they were from distinct groups. I had my hiking buddies, my photography buddy, my drinking/laser tag/RPG buddies and so on. Helps when you share a house with 270 people, you can mix and match and not really need a significant other. I did find one friend who enjoyed most of the things I did, and she became my significant other.
Life partner without offspring is something my parents generation will take as a reason to pity someone, it being assumed that they'd want and can't rather than they don't want to so don't.
Again, amongst my peers that pressure seems to have dropped.
Seems your friend Laurie has kids and is an artist. Did he establish his career before the kids?
I know having two kids takes a chunk of time, but not as much as an engineering career, that takes 12-14 hours a day for 6/7 day weeks for months on end.
I thought for writing it was write a million words, not practice 10,000 hours, but pretty much the same deal.
For some of us, I think it's more about wanting someone to share the enjoyment with. I'll leave the extent of what that looks like to your imagination but...examples could be: traveling; enjoying nature, beauty, animals, children; hiking; photography; music...
ReplyDeleteIt just feels *sweeter* shared. What I think *relationship* is *supposed to be*. I don't think that we were meant to *be alone*. Even those who log onto your blog, Eo, aren't completely wanting to be absolutely *alone* because...they seek out others...here...and enjoy sharing similar interests...in topics/concepts/issues. :-)
"Seems your friend Laurie has kids and is an artist. Did he establish his career before the kids? "
ReplyDeleteYes.
It also seems to me that while he is very productive with his commercial photography, he would prefer to have much more time for art work.
Sharing is wonderful. And clearly to *some* extend that's a sacrifice you have to make if follow that other route, I won't deny that.
ReplyDeletetc
ReplyDelete"For some of us, I think it's more about wanting someone to share the enjoyment with."
In nature is common for animals to seek the company of their on kind. You see fish swim together, lion gather in a pride. If you ever see women they usually travel in a group.
The answer is to find someone who thinks like you do.
Doing things in life should not be one or the other. Surely you can manage a few minutes in the day for what you love. The things you do not love just get what time is left.
Joe
"It's simply part of what you do in life, isn't it? Is it? Or is it optional for somebody who has other plans?"
ReplyDeleteWhat "other plans" could you possibly have? You get married to someone of the opposite gender, you have one or more children, you go to your 9-5 job five days a week, you watch TV, you follow sports, you own a house in the suburbs, you tend to your lawn, you go to church, you drive everywhere, you complain about your boss and your spouse, you eat meat, you drink alcohol...
...
Of course it's optional (it's physically possible, it's not illegal, etc.), but that obvious answer is clearly not what you're getting at. I notice societal pressures to marry and have kids, but I don't have corresponding internal feelings of obligation. Maybe it's because I grew up with role models of people in my family who were not married, and/or who did not have kids, that it's always seemed like an option to me. Maybe I'm just lucky enough that the people close to me fully support my following my own path and finding my own way. I do *want* a long-term love relationship (I'm undecided about kids), but I don't feel like it's just "what one does."
Jeremy says:
"It boggles my mind how lost some people feel when they don't do what everybody else is doing."
It boggles my mind how lost -- or threatened -- many OTHER people feel when someone isn't doing what everybody else is doing.
Ah yes. Threatened is the word. An interesting thing, that. And weird.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm on my 4th kid in the house, though the youngest started as a granddaughter, but we had to demote her to daughter, for seriously bad attitude. When I'm working on my "art", a few hours is all I can manage, not because of family, but because of the intensity. Earning a living is the biggest impediment to creative endeavour, not the diseased, poopy diapered, smelly little varmints. So, in the words of the senior kid at home now; "whatever".
ReplyDeleteI also think that it might be decided by: what was modeled, in a person's upbringing; what was most important in the make-up of the family dynamic: was family the priority; work; or...following one's *heart*/desire for some individual or group passion...or...was there a balance of all included?
ReplyDeleteAnd...as some have already written: were children a big part of the picture or *just barely* (hey...it had to at least include yourself, right, since you are *here* to write about it! lol!)?
Was having a family a big part of the person's life goals/dreams or not. And...then there is the [probably more oft than most would honestly admit to] *oops!* factor: *unplanned* children and the decision to move forward w/*Plan B*...diverting from their initial plan...or not.
And...there are also *seasons* in one's life where people know that there will be an *ebb and wane* of time spent w/an interest, due to other responsibilities of, say, having chosen to have a family, and it is either accepted, gracefully, or fought with, depending on the choice of attitude about the whole phase. Perhaps it ends up being a hobby, instead, for awhile, rather than a *full-on* interest.
Some people would like to fulfill dreams *carved out* with only themselves as the only *benefactor;* other people's dreams encompass more than their own desires, etc. It becomes something bigger than themselves; something not entirely controlled or limited by one's own making. :-)
And...children are not always a given *option*. There are many who want and cannot *have* due to physical limitations. And...fortunately, there are many other options, if that is the case; adoption being one of them.
But...rather than thinking of people as *options* (like I could go down to a corner store and select one! I WISH!! lol! ;-) I would want to ask myself if I wanted to have others in my *family* or...not.
There are other ways of enjoying children, if children are what someone enjoys...every once in awhile. Visiting friends and enjoying their children might be all that would suffice that person. Just like grandparents: they get to say goodbye, when they are *done* w/the kids! lol!
Or...something like Ray has described that he did w/the neighborhood kids. That is a great idea, too. There are never too many mentors in a child's life!
But...it is yet an entirely different thing to have one's own child. It is a very difficult thing to describe but...it is as though you are *smitten* by the little *buggers*(lol!) unlike any of your friends' can affect you. :-) They might even grow up admiring you, if you have treated them w/love, kindness, and respect, while they were growing up! And...then, there will be someone there to wish you "Godspeed," when the time comes to leave this earth. What a gift!
Ray, doomsayers like you have been around along time and have so far been very, very, very wrong.
ReplyDeleteYea, 98% of the planet is still wasteland, and we have barely scratched the surface of what used land can yield, so it does not seem overpopulated to me.
ReplyDeleteAs for this 10,000 hour idea, it depends on what you want more. One of Gladwell's examples if Bill Gates. As a dateless wonder he had the time to spend hours and hours programming his computer. It's sort of related to the idea of delayed gratification. Putting in those hours and not getting laid at all in high school paid off in the end.
ReplyDeleteJust so. Priorities.
ReplyDeleteAh yes. Threatened is the word. An interesting thing, that. And weird.
ReplyDeleteIt makes them question what they're doing, and few people like that. Especially if you're someone who has made conformity their religion (that accounts for probably 90% of the population of the world).
Safety is everybody's religion, and safety is in numbers.
ReplyDeleteAlex:Again, amongst my peers that pressure seems to have dropped.
ReplyDeleteI sure don't feel it, though I'm probably 10 years younger than you. Most of the people I went to high school with have kids now, and several did already back then.
Alex:Seems your friend Laurie has kids and is an artist. Did he establish his career before the kids?
Photography is exempt from the 10,000 hour rule, requiring little talent as it does. However, you can't learn to paint like Leonardo or Bouguereau over night.
Joe:In nature is common for animals to seek the company of their on kind. You see fish swim together, lion gather in a pride. If you ever see women they usually travel in a group.
Not a very good example as there are many, many non-gregarious species out there. One that leaps immediately to mind is the orangutan, a primate which spends the bulk its time alone and only hooks up with another orangutan to mate. Tons of other examples.
Joe: The answer is to find someone who thinks like you do.
Most of the chicks I've dated were complete opposites of me and we hated each other at first.
Joe:Surely you can manage a few minutes in the day for what you love.
Most people can, but a few minutes isn't going to do it. If you want to be the best of the best, the Gretzky in your field, you have to put in the time. 10,000 hours will take you a very long time if you only put in a few minutes a day.
Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life . . . But why would I want to do a thing like that?
P.S. Joking about photography not requiring talent...although that is why a lot of people in their teens try it. Same with cartooning. Same with blank verse.
ReplyDeleteHey, what happened to my last post.
ReplyDeleteAnyway all I said in it was I'm 40, so you thirty year olds must be a different breed to my peers.
Also I said I liked the Rentboy quote. Can you dig up Sickboys commentary on Sean Connery?
Joe, seeing as how we sometimes get in each other's hair, I better be sure to say that you say some excellent things here.
ReplyDeleteEven about photography. A lot commercial photography just demands correct exposure and sharp pictures. (Though, amazingly, some people can't even manage that.)
Of course to become a great *art* photographer, like you say, is an entirely different thing.
And art photographers, like other artists, very rarely make a living.
Joe Dick quoted...
ReplyDelete"Choose life . . . But why would I want to do a thing like that?"
'cuz a person might as well make the best of it. We were ALL *brought* here for a reason and didn't ask to be...! lol! :-)
Might as well make it a *good round* since we're here, anyway. Would be NICE to not be a waste of human flesh...always *wearing* a SHITTY ATTITUDE! lol! ;-)
TC the quote ends "I chose heroin". Makes a world of difference in context.
ReplyDeleteJoe, did you take the time to read the original Welsh novel? Even more fun and obviously darker than the film.
"I pity the English..."
Alex said...
ReplyDelete"TC the quote ends "I chose heroin". Makes a world of difference in context."
Uh...thank you! I didn't take the time to read the entire quote, when I found it (was just confirming that it was, indeed, a quote.)
Yes...that does put a whole new *spin* on the quote. *Such* a WISE choice (and selection!)! lol! [eyes rolling]
Alex: Joe, did you take the time to read the original Welsh novel? Even more fun and obviously darker than the film.
ReplyDeleteI bought it quite a while ago but haven't read it yet. As soon as I finish the one I'm on now I'll read it. The only downside is, I loved the movie and it looks like, if you're right, the book will once again be better than the movie.
TC: Yes...that does put a whole new *spin* on the quote. *Such* a WISE choice (and selection!)! lol! [eyes rolling]
Well I left off the bit about heroin because apart from that I kind of agree with it. I'd never choose a life of doing smack over that other stuff, but I can't say that kind of domestic crap he talks about appeals to me very much, and I'd rather just shack up with someone than get married, and I don't want kids. Not that I don't like them. I have two nieces who I love very much but I don't want kids of my own.
I fell asleep before I got the DVD off the shelf. Doesn't Trainspotting end with the same speech, but he does choose life?
ReplyDeleteThe book is just more. It's one of the few times where the film stands up next to the book. Same quality, but the book has more time to do stuff. It's not that we miss out on anything Sickboy, Renton, Spud and Begby do, but there are other stories in parallel, some only loosely connected to the main gang.
Joe Dick said...
ReplyDelete"Well I left off the bit about heroin because apart from that I kind of agree with it. I'd never choose a life of doing smack over that other stuff,"
Good to know that. :-)
"...but I can't say that kind of domestic crap he talks about appeals to me very much,"
I doubt many of those tasks are appealing to most of us. However, if we don't choose them for ourselves, *someone or something* (aka *life*) has a way of doing it for us; and, of course, probably not even close to our own satisfaction. ;-)
"...and I'd rather just shack up with someone than get married,"
Knock yourself out. It's a FREE country! ;-)
"...and I don't want kids. Not that I don't like them. I have two nieces who I love very much but I don't want kids of my own."
And that's a good thing to know about yourself, too. Just don't get *too* pig-headed (proud) to change your mind, if you decide that you *do* want some kids, down the road. There is nothing wrong w/changing your mind, later on. That's why you were given one...a mind, that is; to make the best choices...for your own life. IF, however, you choose to have someone else in your life, don't forget that that person's dreams -- whether you marry them or not -- *should* be included in your equation, too...and...not just about kids. :-)
My mind being boggled or people being lost? :)
ReplyDelete