Top Cat points to this article. I actually never realized the recession would create lots more homeless. Thirties, here we come.
Aniko made a facetious comment today about real estate being important, if for no other reason the for having a roof over your head. As a child of Denmark, I always took that for granted (DK has virtually no homeless), but I guess you can't always.
Epona said:
Well, I don't think I'll become homeless thanks to my boyfriend, but I just lost my job Monday. I need to find a job like yours!
Eolake said:
You could do worse.
Some people have thought that being self-employed is insecure, but I tell you: every job I have had with others I've lost within three to five years. But now I've been self-employed for twelve years, and doing better than ever.
Um, your mileage may vary... !
Update: I'm confused: why the tents? According to wikipedia, USA does have welfare. Supposedly welfare would keep one above the poverty line?
Eo,
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't think I'll become homeless thanks to my boyfriend, but I just lost my job Monday. I need to find a job like yours!
You could do worse.
ReplyDeleteSome people have thought that being self-employed is insecure, but I tell you: every job I have had with others I've lost within three to five years. But now I've been self-employed for twelve years, and doing better than ever.
Um, your mileage may vary... !
Denmark is a smaller country, and the government takes more care about the people. Higher taxes, but higher life standard, especially for the social nets that prevent you from falling too low. As far as a friend said, who has been living there. Do you agree?
ReplyDeleteGood luck to you, Epona!
Yes, Denmark is one big Robin Hood: take from the rich and give to the poor. Or if you ask the (formerly) rich: "take from the hard workers and give to the lazy". :-)
ReplyDeleteThere are no super-rich in Denmark, and basically nobody poor.
Taxes go from 50% to 70%.
I loved it when I was unemployed, but started hating it when I started earning good money! It's the human condition.
I think it is a really civilized country.
ReplyDeleteIf people can get the consciousness that they are part of a group, and help each other through accepting the taxes as a moral duty more than an imposed rule, it makes a stable happy country.
Because you need to make people really poor to make others really rich inside the same system.
I don't think that's necessarily true. Living conditions in the west are far higher than they were a hundred years ago, and there's no reason they can't be much higher yet a hundred years from now, without making anybody poor.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking of the great structural difference between USA and Denmark.
ReplyDelete"If people can get the consciousness that they are part of a group, and help each other through accepting the taxes as a moral duty more than an imposed rule, it makes a stable happy country."
ReplyDeleteYou don't agree with this?
Well, sort of. But then taxes have to be voluntary, no?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I could live with taxes if they mostly paid for streets and hospitals and such. But most of them go to military and to paying off interest on debts to big international banks. Most countries could be far more prosperous without that.
Worst part of all this is that most of those foreclosed houses will rot standing, for nobody is really taking care of them... what a crazy world.
ReplyDeleteYeah, of course it is the whole system. Big corporations have to pay taxes too, what they usually don't do much in the most developed countries. And if the government uses the taxpayer's money for its own interests, it does not work.
ReplyDeleteI just had the idea that in Denmark it is working quite well, one of the few examples.
France was working relatively well too. Now the government wants to make very big changes, but the crisis does not give it much credit. There are big demonstrations everywhere, very interesting!
Bert, crazy indeed. The banks should give people a good deal for a few years instead of foreclosing.
ReplyDeleteAniko, DK works well on the whole, except I'll be damned if I'm paying 70% in taxes.
Bert said: "Worst part of all this is that most of those foreclosed houses will rot standing, for nobody is really taking care of them... what a crazy world."
ReplyDeleteYes... When something so useful and real becomes purely a commodity that has monetary value, but is not meant to be used... It is really crazy!
"Aniko, DK works well on the whole, except I'll be damned if I'm paying 70% in taxes."
ReplyDeleteAnyway, you have to practice English. :-)
I realize I don't know exactly what foreclosing means. Could you explain when does that happen?
ReplyDeleteIt's when a bank kicks the "owner" out of a house because he couldn't pay his mortgage, and then the bank tries to sell the house.
ReplyDeleteeolake said...
ReplyDelete"Bert, crazy indeed. The banks should give people a good deal for a few years instead of foreclosing."
Every time I see this, it just doesn't make sense to me. For instance if someone owes me $100, but in the end they can only give me $25. The way I look at it, $25 is better than $0!!
Aniko said...
"I realize I don't know exactly what foreclosing means. Could you explain when does that happen?"
Aniko, I'm speechless. Everyone that I have ever known and problably everyone that I will ever know, understands the concept of foreclosure. I guess it's just something at my social level (whatever that is) that everyone understands. Believe me, I'm not meaning to say right or wrong or cast judgements. I'm just amazed.
Interesting comment, Tommy! :-)
ReplyDeleteMakes me think too!
Well, social level, economic culture, national economic culture...
One thing is that I am not using english in everyday life, so I never met the concept. (This blog is great to learn concepts of everyday life.)
Other thing...
Well, I guess foreclosure is a part of the normal structure of economic life of your area.
Where is your area?
Ok, now I looked up the word in another dictionary, where I found it, of course I know the concept. Though mostly from movies. Nobody I know had that. (But nobody I know had a valuable real estate, other than the one one lives in.)
Is it normal in your area to face foreclosure, or just to hear of it?
Aniko, "Is it normal in your area to face foreclosure, or just to hear of it?"
ReplyDeleteI like in the good old USA. Yes foreclosure, unfortunately, does occur here. Fortunately I have never been in a financial position to be in that position, nor have any of my friends.
But, I often think about how close we all are to it, specially in these days. For example, if you loose your job and can't find income and do not have good financial resourses, your house can be gone and you're out on the street in the cold.
It's interesting the USA is suppose to be this wealthy country (and yes in many ways it is), but we still see people living on the streets. Reading Eolakes comments about DK, I wonder who's better off?
Aniko said "One thing is that I am not using english in everyday life".
ReplyDeleteI want to appologize for being to quick to answer and make my comments about my amazement. I forget sometimes the when I place a post here that it's being seen internationally, so I never know the readers background or culture as I write.
By the way, as I have read your many posts here, your use of the English language is very good.
Again, this insensitive jerk appologizes.
Come on, no apologies to make, Tommy!
ReplyDeleteFirst, it is a nice compliment that you assumed I was "an inlander".
Second, I assumed you were really astonished by my ignorance of this term, and this astonishment shows openness of mind, sensitivity to cultural difference. :-)
For me, I was astonished, reading the article, that the riches "can't pay their mortgages." Why would rich people have mortgages? My feeling is that if you are rich, means you have no credit... :-)
USA is a wealthy country and could afford to have a much higher standard of social security. There is this basic feeling of insecurity, that if you lose your job, you lost everything, that comes through the writings and the strength of it is astonishing to me.
Aniko says...
ReplyDelete"...There is this basic feeling of insecurity, that if you lose your job, you lost everything, that comes through the writings and the strength of it is astonishing to me."
Aniko:
It is not the greatest *excuse* in the world but...most of us did not receive education on money management...from our parents nor in school. It seems that *kids* learned more about how to *keep up with the Joneses* [as they say] (having material things just like other neighbors/friends, etc.) than how to deal w/their finances responsibly. I am reading a great book, right now, from
Dave Ramsey that I would highly recommend to understand how *everyday Americans* got to the place where they have to live in tents.
Epona said...
"Well, I don't think I'll become homeless thanks to my boyfriend, but I just lost my job Monday."
Epona...sorry to hear about your job loss. I hope that you are able to find another soon. I hope you're right about never having to become homeless. I would venture to say that: there are no guarantees in life (other than taxes and death, they say!). I would hope that your boyfriend would not lose his job in the same timeframe; this is what is happening all across America, these days. Sometimes not having medical insurance can wipe out a family's entire life's savings, in no time, if, say, a person is self-employed (where medical insurance is very high and many don't want to pay for it and...*take the chance* of a medical catastrophe happening to them or a family member.).
"most of us did not receive education on money management...from our parents nor in school"
ReplyDeleteYes, that is a travesty. I learned about math in school, things I've never used, but how to manage their money, kids are never taught. Friggin' amazing.
Update: I'm confused: why the tents? According to wikipedia, USA does have welfare. Supposedly welfare would keep one above the poverty line?
ReplyDeleteeolake said...
ReplyDelete"Update: I'm confused: why the tents? According to wikipedia, USA does have welfare. Supposedly welfare would keep one above the poverty line?"
Good question, Eo. I hadn't even thought of that, myself, and...I am not familiar w/how the system works but found this.
Possibly, some of the people in the tents don't qualify...particularly people like the couple that didn't want to tell their son (what d'ya wanna bet he's heard about it by now?! lol!)...because: they aren't elderly; they don't have kids; they aren't disabled nor (as far as I was able to surmise) unable to work...but...that dad w/the 5 kids? I dunno. Perhaps it's a pride thing for him? And...perhaps he's afraid that Child Protective Services (or whatever they are called...I think that is the correct name for the agency) might try to take the kids away from him, if he goes to get help. But...as the demands for assistance increases, I am certain that more and more programs will need to be cut, due to funds drying up. :-(
Thanks for the comments, tc !
ReplyDeleteI guess that for the economic system, you need to raise generations of addicted consumers, not thinking minds... :-)
I come from East Europe, we always thought USA is the Land of Freedom that is hidden to us by the iron curtain. I remember it was really weird to discover that it is not *that* perfect, even for the inhabitants. In Indonesia where I had the chance to live for a while, they don't have social security, but it is a *poor* country, maybe it is understandable. But that USA has the same kind of lack of social security than third world countries... was a big amazement for me.
I found a very interesting documentary, posted the links here.
http://aniko-antinyamuk.blogspot.com/
I think this documentary made clear a lot of things to me, helped me understand what is happening. I think this a thing to show to the kids... and to the adults.
Forgot to mention the title:
ReplyDeleteThe Corporation.
Thanks to no iron curtain, in Denmark we had a bit clearer picture of the states, but still not quite right... mine is still being corrected. I think we swallowed a lot of the American attitude and belief during most of the twentieth century, that the US was just generally *ahead*, Culturally, technologically, and economically. I don't know how much of that was ever true, but I don't think it is true anymore, and the states may even fall rather behind in the 21st, I should not be surprised.
ReplyDeleteThe less educated Americans used to have this deep-seated belief that the rest of the world should worship at their feet and be greatly thankful, because the US was bringing democracy and prosperity to the whole world.
ReplyDeleteI would think that the highly educated too... :-)
ReplyDeleteThere is a general tendency to think our nation is better than the others.
I heared this:
"Education is a system of imposed ignorance" (Noam Chomsky)
eolake said..
ReplyDelete"belief .... , that the US was just generally *ahead*, Culturally, technologically, and economically. "
You have to keep in mind that the USA got a big head start on most of Europe due to WWII.
Europe lost most of their manufacturing base and infrastructure during the war. America was able to ramp up manufacturing and produced a lot of what was needed by the world. When the war ended she was selling what Europe was in need of.
This produced a large transfer of wealth to the USA from the rest of the world.
Now we are seeing a re balancing of wealth and power.
Joe
"I'm confused: why the tents? According to wikipedia, USA does have welfare. Supposedly welfare would keep one above the poverty line?"
ReplyDeleteIm not sure about the US but in the country Im from they have quite an extensive welfare system but they have a rule that unless you can provide an address and prove you live there you cant receive welfare, so once you are evicted and on the street you get nothing
Huh. Worth a thought.
ReplyDeleteI loved it when I was unemployed, but started hating it when I started earning good money! It's the human condition.
ReplyDeleteSo you were okay with it when you were a shiftless, lazy, good-for-nothing, do-nothing freeloading bum, but when you start making good money instead of saying "Here's where I do my duty and give back" you say "Fuck this! Sucker! I'm out of here."
That's disgusting. What a poor excuse for a human being you are.
Thanks for the gentle rebuke.
ReplyDeleteTrust me, I put a lot more into that system than I ever took out of it.