"Being good" is such a plastic concept. In Copenhagen, if you want to go out and kill unbelievers, you'll be shunned or locked up. In Beirut, if you don't want to go out and kill unbelievers, you are not a man, and you're an enemy of the people and of god.
I guess you can only follow your own rudder, and try to be sensitive to what others think so as not to get into too much trouble.
Being "Good" or "Bad" is too vague. Interesting point about how you are judged by peers differently according to the society you live in - one persons Good Is anothers bad, & vice versa!I always thought it was enough to try and behave honestly, with integrity, & avoiding aggressive behaviour towards others. There are those that believe most of humanity is naturally dishonest and aggressive (basic instincts) & I wonder if the challenge we have as a race is to use our sentience to rise above that and show what qualities we are capable of. But if another man BELIEVES its right to kill another for religious reasons, and you believe it isn't, how do you reconcile that?
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's possible to reconcile it, but not necessary either.
ReplyDeleteInteresting viewpoint. By not reconciling it, are you simply accepting that the beliefs are too ingrained, and humanity will always live with the disparity? In all societies, including Beirut, there are natives who abhor the violence, & irrational hatred, & long for peace with others, regardless of race or creed or religion. Is the aggression & dishonesty if some individuals nothing to do with religion, but more to do with who you are, and how you are raised?
ReplyDeleteMaybe I used the wrong word in reconcile, I think I meant I'd like to understand....but maybe I don't need to understand either.
As a parent of young children, it saddens me when they see irrational aggressive behaviour from one human to another, and saddens me more when they ask me 'why did he do that' and I struggle to give a reason, largely because I don't understand.
Those are surely some of the deepest questions we have.
ReplyDeleteThe book The Disappearance Of The Universe by Gary Renard helped me. But that gets very metaphysical and spiritual, it's not for everybody.
'Good' and 'bad' are beliefs.
ReplyDelete"... it saddens me when they see irrational aggressive behaviour from one human to another, and saddens me more when they ask me 'why did he do that' and I struggle to give a reason, largely because I don't understand."
What happens is that the person committing the aggression can not recognize any other choices he could make.
It is no different from a person committing suicide. Gradually one's vision becomes narrower until finally there's only one "available" action to take.
The answer I would give is: he is poor in choices.
Metaphysically speaking, the scenario from the "victim's" perspective is completely independent from this. The two persons occupy their own realities and play out their respective roles for their own reasons.
I'm surprised Pascal hasn't chimed in yet with the mention of Beirut.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I've found through my travels and the wonder of documentaries that there are good people the world over even in those evil countries of Iraq, Iran, N. Korea, etc.
Kind of reminds me of the amazement about the Germans from the atrocities of WWII and the joke that it was really the eskimos who'd done it all as there were no Nazis.
Yes, Kronostar, luckily the vast majority of people in this world is well-minded.
ReplyDeleteSo who keeps destroying this impression? The politicians? The media? The few madly-minded always succeed in getting public attention, of course. Being good and normal is a boring thing for the media, not worth an article.
Context is everything. If a few Jewish bankers hadn't brought half of Europe on the brink of starvation, Hitler would never have succeeded in polarizing the opinion against the Jews. Heck, he might have never climbed out of the sewer from whence he came, without such an obvious target.
ReplyDeleteBut since the historic context was so carefully eradicated by some, it is now close to impossible to understand how the whole mess came to be. But it certainly could have been explained, if people at the time would have deemed it important (convenient, to be precise). Now, it's too late for that, and it can only appear to be gratuitous and senseless madness.
Well, he went a bit beyond the jews, didn't he. He invaded every country around him, and he attempted genocide on everybody not Aryan.
ReplyDeleteYou are right, but that came after he had successfully brainwashed an entire army. The whole process started early in the 30's, at the peak of starvation and despair.
ReplyDeleteThis just in from Beirut (you didn't REALLY expect me to remain on the sidelines, did you?):
ReplyDeleteAn unbeliever (local official definition) is one who is neither christian nor muslim. That means Jews, Buddhists, Hinduists, Jehovah's Witnesses, assorted Marginalists, Freemasons, pagan Wiccans, and worst of all, ATHEISTS (ee-yuck!). Basically, anybody whose belief is not part of the officially acknowledged currents in our fine impeccable country.
But don't you go and imagine that there's anything wrong with killing believers, either. One from a different current, the more so from a close but rival one (example: sunnis vs shiites), and furthermore somebody amidst your own community but who's a traitor supporting the wrong leading figure... it's all fair game, it's halal (God-permitted).
Wallah, the world economy is in recession, so SOMEBODY has to stimulate and prod the sluggish arms market! Yep, that's us Lebanese: the most dedicated, altruistic, selflessly generous people of Earth, Heaven and all Elsewheres. We'll sacrifice our whole, oh-so-dearest country for the common good.
BTW, this isn't exaggerated: if some "obvious head case, by definition" wants to worship and pray Satan, then he's an enemy of God, and every decent man's duty is to defend and protect poor threatened Allah from negative prayers that might reinforce the Opponent's Mana. We can't have any of that, letting "It" get more powerful, it's already capable of moving the horned-head Papal Magnet and Summoning a Prophet to recruit armies! Why, we've even been having repeated light tremors lately...
Of course, everybody is against "It". But everybody considers the others as secretly supporting "It".
Welcome to the land of co-existence, rahat wilkum! Where the war is constantly broken up and fragmented by periods of pesky truce, apeasements, and other transient moments of bewildered mutual understanding. (But worry not, these never last. We've adapted!)
The ego is continuing division, the higher self is unity.
ReplyDeleteThanks for defining "halal", I've been wondering since I first saw it on muslim butcher shops in copenhagen back when. Clearly it's the equivalent of "kosher".
It's practically identical to "kosher", yes. Same concept, with a few diverging details.
ReplyDeleteBut rahat wilkum is my own invention. A pun on "welcome" and the proverbial sweetness of rahat-lukum.
Anonymous,
Why no name on such an insightful post?
I pledge to not intimidate your modesty with excessive praise. It's just so we'll remember you next time you share something of this quality, to tell us you're already a friend we know.
Just like, reading the previous comments, I appreciate Kronostar remembering me. :-)
(I've just been a little busy, KS.)
"Excuse me, no time to chat. Things to do, people to kill..." - (The Joker)
..."as there were no Nazis."
Well, that is correct. I've just finished playing the first adventure in Lego Indiana Jones, and there are none. Only an evil people/race of generic bue-eyed blond-haired evildoers. Their flag is something like red with a couple black stripes, and it is seldom even seen. ;-)
Beep,
The vast majority of people in this world IS well-minded. But the vast majority also doesn't think enough, or doesn't bother to care for the sake of caring. In Lebanon, racism is the social norm, and that's no cliché. Only a sad general fact. :-(
They're not even ill-intended, most of them are normally very nice and warm people; they just don't bother to think beyond their cultural reflexes and look at their "inferiors" as human beings.
Europe was just like that, not 100 years ago. (What a scary thought.)
But sometimes all this makes me wonder if my parents adopted me from a crashed space rocket. It would explain why I was born and raised here, all my life, and feel like I belong so little. (sigh)
Sure, I've had good parents, lucky me. But my very nature is allergic to the prevailing crowd mentality. The Lebanese don't like to think. They like to believe they do, when they meet and trade age-old "deep" clichés. But in reality, they don't think. They react. Following their built-in software.
Those who don't? And who try to DO something different at the country's scale? They usually end up dead. Like Gebran Tueini. Clumsy political choices, but had heart and integrity. Assassinated. Nobody ever targets the scumbags. Except worse scumbags.
Don't dream of the people revolting here. Feudal mentality is stronger than the cohesion of a bee hive. (A bee hive with constant civil war. Too many, far too many queens.)
Now I think I've put a name on my health problem. I have psychegenic cordialgia. There's no known cure. Cordialectomy removes the symptoms, but leaves you dead inside.
"If a few Jewish bankers hadn't brought half of Europe on the brink of starvation, Hitler would never have succeeded"...
Well, he just sneakily played on the details. Problem? Jewish bankers. Adolf's interpretation? Jews are a problem. The truth? Bankers and capitalism are. Up to this day, and getting worse. :-P
The least bad Israeli politician is now resigning, because he was rather pro-peace, but also corrupt to the bone. Not because he's a "zionist enemy", really. Simply because he's a classic politician.
"But since the historic context was so carefully eradicated by some, it is now close to impossible to understand how the whole mess came to be."
I know many people who would sneer at you and drawl: "NOBODY wants to understand. They all want to stick their heads in the sand and forget it ever happened. Even the Palestinians, the main victims of Israel's creation, love nothing better than to deny that its determining factor, the Shoah, ever happened."
And that's true: negationnism, starting with the (in)famous "genuine false Protocols of Zion", is living its days of glory right now in the arabo-muslim world. The arab christians aren't less zealous in average. ("We cannot stand each other's guts, but we are forever united by our divisions. Who else would we bicker with?")
You could sum up the regional attitude like so: "We hate Israel's guts, and love to hate them. But Israel doesn't exist, all our Geography school books say so. Maybe if we ignore "it" enough, "it" will go away and vanish like a bad dream. Allah willing."
Ain't oriental wisdom cool? :-(
"and he attempted genocide on everybody not Aryan."
And as a warm-up, he genocided everybody German who wasn't Aryan enough. The old, the mentally challenged, the difform, the ill, the marginals and vagrants... It left nothing but a "perfect" country, ach so, ziehr gut!
But hey, he had every right to do so, didn't he? After all, HE was the quintescence of Aryanity: German-born, tall, blond, blue eyes, big muscles, handsome, welcoming, caring, an intellectual and cultural prodigy, more mentally firm than a dolmen... not like those runts Kirk Douglas and Rutger Hauer. Hey, it's tough to be perfect, but somebody's got to take the job!
"But sometimes all this makes me wonder if my parents adopted me from a crashed space rocket."
ReplyDeleteQuick test: Can you jump over a speeding train faster than a single bullet?
No.
ReplyDeleteOuchie.
But I can predict part of the future, the past, and the hidden present. And I can make some children listen. Weird shit has happened around me and to me all my life.
I can also read in my dreams. I heard that's normally impossible.
"Anonymous, Why no name on such an insightful post?"
ReplyDeleteThat was me. Not anonymous on purpose, I somehow fumbled with the "Choose an identity" button. (A first for me, I think.)
Sorry to get your hopes up that someone with real insight might have entered our forum. :-) It was me all along. Cuckoo! :-)
Phew! That was a close call! :o)
ReplyDeleteSorry to get your hopes up that someone with real insight might have entered our forum. :-) It was me all along. Cuckoo! :-)
ReplyDeleteIt sounded a lot like your usual idiocy, and was not insightful at all. This Pascal is far too charitable. It's a good thing he's a real boy and not made of wood, or his nose would be able 3 metres long by now.
"It sounded a lot like your usual idiocy, and was not insightful at all."
ReplyDeletePerhaps. But why don't you offer something insightful then? Give us all something to learn from. Unless, of course, you prefer to read my "usual idiocy" ...
Charitable? Me? Aw, you're too kind! :-)
ReplyDeleteWhile I am indeed a real boy (and quite grown at that), with a normal nose, my wood tends to grow impressively when I say certain truths to certain persons. But this is WAY off-topic, because when this happens I'm about to get real naughty.
TTL, as a long-time fan of Mad Magazine, "by the usual gang of idiots", I think it's time to confess I really appreciate your usual idiocy. And even the select exceptional one!
"It takes one to know one", right? ;-)