Fame. David Bowie wrote a song about it, and he was also the one who said that most of what could be said for it is that it gets you a table in restaurants.
I believe him. Perhaps in my tender youth I imagined it was desirable, but no longer. At least not the kind of fame that means you can't walk in peace. Like one actor said on Actor's Studio, actors are all kind of neurotic, for who needs that much attention?
Anyway, Stephen Fry writes a long, insightful, and often funny essay about it.
Oooh, I just remembered: once I saw on a small Danish television station one of the new breed of "journalists" ("it's all about me") walking around in mixed celebrity company and asking how he would go about becoming famous, because he really wanted to become famous. When he asked one of the grand old men of Danish acting, Ove Sprogø, Ove did not even bother dignifying this idiocy with a reply, he just turned and walked away. Wonderful.
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Update: I've meant to mention this before, but now I have a good example...
What does "if not" mean?
Stephen Fry wrote:
"I completely understand that to be well-known is to be blessed with all kinds of advantages. I completely understand that fame is something that many, if not all, hunt after in their lives."
Does Fry mean "many, and perhaps all, hunt after" or "many, but not all, hunt after"?
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A celebrity is a person who works hard all his life to become well known, then wears dark glasses to avoid being recognized.
-- Fred Allen
Update:
Funny thing about Stephen Fry: even if you did not know his sexual orientation, you might guess it just from the sheer number of times he utters the word "arse" or any of its synonyms. It's just countless, both in his books and on TV.
Doris Roberts (of Everybody Loves Raymond) said that most "Most kids want to be celebrities. They don't want to be actors."
ReplyDeleteSee, too, what Seinfeld said about actors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6XYnS04c7A
The money would be nice, but it's hard to say if it's worth it. That said there do seem to be actors and other famous people who are able to lead normal lives. For one thing living outside the United States seems to help.
You know, an idiom can be hard to parse! I've spent ten minutes on this one, so far.
ReplyDeleteIn this case,"many (or most)..., if not, all" is the full idiom. The speaker is exaggerating to emphasize the pervasiveness of an activity or condition. Something like: "Many of the Sox fans wore red, if (that's) not (true, then they) all (wore red)."
It's an example of typical Yankee overstatement. A British person might say, similarly, "If one does, than all."
What a nice web site Stephen Fry has managed to put up. In addition to a shop, blog etc, he has a lively discussion forum with 2500 registered users.
ReplyDeleteRegarding fame: If you are trying to sell something (anything), fame equals brand recognition. Every marketer want's it.
Bowie forgot to mention that in addition to the main advantage, i.e. getting a table in a restaurant, it also brings you lesser benefits such as the sales of 120 million albums.
Englishmajor isn't much of an English major, if he doesn't know what is and what isn't an idiom. And, why are stupid people such windbags?
ReplyDeleteWhat does windbag mean?
ReplyDeletea person who talks at length but says little of any value
ReplyDeleteenglishmajor didn't really go for that long, but I guess the "says little of any value" is what Anonymous is getting at.
EnglishMajor, well done, I think you hit the nail right on the head. Both the part about the idiom being a larger part of the sentence, and the meaning of it. I had not seen that.
ReplyDeleteHow about:
"This is a good car, if not great."
... does he think the car is great or that it's not?
Fry is saying, "many, and perhaps all, hunt after." In contexts such as this, "if not" is used to state that if the entire populace does not seek/want something, then at least the majority of it does.
ReplyDeleteif not = maybe even.
ReplyDeletefame or fortune? chose fortune because with fortune the fame will appear and hence you can also help the poor and needy. (save the roses for those who enjoy flowers, smile)
ReplyDeleteEolake reported: "Funny thing about Stephen Fry: even if you did not know his sexual orientation, you might guess it just from the sheer number of times he utters the word "arse" or any of its synonyms. It's just countless, both in his books and on TV."
ReplyDeleteHmm ... can we deduce from the specific selection of synonyms and their frequency with regards to context whether he is a top or a bottom? :-)
(Actually, I'm a huge Stephen Fry fan and prefer not to know anything about his sexuality.)
1. "If not": glad to learn of another idiomatic English expression that's tough for non-native speakers. I like to keep track of them.
ReplyDeleteExample: Hey, I'm happy, if not ecstatic, that you're here.
Translation: Hey, I'm happy that you're here, and I'm almost ecstatic that you're here, but I probably am not quite fully ecstatic, so we'd better leave it at merely happy. Though I might be ecstatic instead of happy. I'm not exactly sure. I guess it's best to say I'm on the borderline between happy and ecstatic.
1.b. On a related note: The expression "just about" means opposite things in English on the opposing sides of the pond.
Example: The goal-keeper just about saved the ball from going into the goal.
British translation: Congratulations! You prevented a goal! You almost didn't get it, but you did.
American translation: Too bad! The ball went in, but nice try anyway? You almost did get it, but you didn't.
2. Fame: Yeah, I used to think I wanted to be a celebrity. I realized after Diana Princess of Wales died, that there were probably many more annoyances than benefits to utter famous-ness. I don't think that I'd quite figured that out (I had "just about" figured it out?) until then. I still envy stars sometimes.
I do want the "means" to having a relaxed life. I want a small-ish house that is well maintained and has all necessary ancillaries. I don't want to have to worry about the paycheck. I REALLY don't want to have to get up early and work hard all day -- I'd rather figure something out that allows me to make income (or have enough invested in total that its interest and growth yield sufficient income) so that I can work on projects I deem "worthy" rather than merely "profitable." No more boss-man!
And I want the women. Hot young male Hollywood celebrities are, it seems to me, the only group of people I've ever heard of who can basically act like ancient tribal chiefs in holding a "harem" with little or no social sanction against them. If I were Brad Pitt, I certainly wouldn't have married Jennifer and then Angelina. Of course, I WOULD have tried to hook up with them, but then if I'd failed (or if marriage had been a requirement of their, before they'd allow intimate activity) then I'd just move on to any of the millions of other beautiful women in the world.
To me, I don't have "access" to the two things that I (and all humans) most desire -- love and meaningful contribution to mankind's wellbeing -- and the access is limited exactly because of having to work. Since I'm not famous, I'm not fulfilled. It's not the fame that I want, it's the income and the status that lead to the access that lead to the love and the fulfillment. I guess I view it as a means to an end.
But then, with Diana's death, I realized it wasn't such a means. So now, I don't crave the FAME as much as just the INCOME and STATUS. I've stepped one back on the hierarchy. I'm still hankering for access to love and fulfillment, and I still think of income and status as means to enabling those things (necessary conditions; but not sufficient to cause them; all sorts of other things have to be in place, too). But I'm not hankering for fame, itself, as a means TO those means to those ends.
"1. "If not": glad to learn of another idiomatic English expression that's tough for non-native speakers."
ReplyDeleteNot only us. I asked an American friend who is a writer and one of the most intelligent people I know, and he said he'd been wondering too.
Not only us. I asked an American friend who is a writer and one of the most intelligent people I know, and he said he'd been wondering too.
ReplyDeleteWell there's your problem - your friend is American! ;-)
...seriously, though, I'm surprised there was any confusion. Seemed straightforward to me.