Subtitles, learning English, and global communication

I think global communication could be forwarded tremendously if countries around the world would get English into schools early, and stop dubbing English-language movies, but instead subtitle them. The latter also helps the young ones learning to read. (I used to teach reading, and a milestone was always: "I can manage to read the whole of the subtitles now before they change!." Big smile.)

[The below was clipped from comments on "on Writing".]

Eolake:
"Scandinavians learn it easier than other Europeans because in Scandinavia TV shows and movies are not dubbed, but subtitled."

Pascal:
Same in Lebanon. It really helped me perfect my English.
Or my American, to be precise. :-)
That was before local TV became so decadent, it is now practically unwatchable. During ad breaks, you forget what you were actually watching! ):-P
Subtitles are a mixed annoyance : at first you're bothered by having to focus on reading instead of the images, and later on you really appreciate being able to follow it in original version, and often grasp all the nuances.

The French dub all their foreign movies and TV shows. As a result, many people there almost take pride in not knowing other languages! Or they behave as if such were the case. :-P
Fortunately, today the youngest generation is more eager to learn. Thanks to Europe. :-)))
Marriages between young Europeans of different countries seem to be increasing exponentially. Bravo.

Eolake:
"And I just feel like English is the best option for global communication"

Pascal:
As much as I care for the preservation of cultural diversity, I fully agree here: we Earthlings should set a single global communication standard, and English has everything vouching for it in this particular case. It's hugely widespread, dominant in the computers field, and globally simple, unless you want to get litterary. Which you can, while it's not mandatory.
For comparison, Japanese is also uncomplicated in structure), but it's nightmarish to learn to write, with thousands and thousands of Kanji to memorize. Chinese is even "worse", so to speak, because added to the even more complex writing, it requires much oral skill to master. Undoubtedly poetic and pleasant-sounding, but not very practical for a world standard, especially one using a keyboard. Lazies and dyslexics, search elsewhere!

TTL put forth:
Eolake proclaimed: "I think global communication could be forwarded tremendously if countries around the world would get English into schools early, and stop dubbing English-languish movies, but instead subtitle them."

Well, I am certainly relieved that in my country TV programs have always been subtitled and never dubbed. But not just because of the learning opportunity. I think dubbing is a terrible form of distortion. I want to hear the actor's natural voice no matter what the language. And even if they forgot the subtitles!

For example, if in KieÊlowski's Trois Couleurs: Rouge when Irène Jacob first opens her mouth out would come some union actor's English, I would probably puke. :-)

But I think you are forgetting two things:

1) Countries like French aren't doing it (dubbing instead of subtitling, and not pushing English early on) out of lazyness, but in a deliberate attempt to save the language. And you could say that they have been succesful at this.

2) Natural languages do not exist just as a method of communication here and now. Their other function is to carry information from generation to generation. The languages of, say, northern Europe are thousands of years old (much older than English). There are reasons why in these languages things have the names they have. The very rhythm and use of phonemes and the resulting associations carry information. We do not normally pay attention to this, but its role is huge.

If all of a sudden all languages of the world disapeared, with the exception of English in which everyone would be fluent, the world would be an infinitely dumber place. And I am not saying this to mock English. I love English. It's just that all our languages serve a purpose as a carrier of humankind's collective wisdom.

Eolake concluded: "And I just feel like English is the best option for global communication"

I agree. Provided you don't have to communicate anything of importance. ;-)

Shakespeare did not say anything of importance? :)

It is not necessary for the French to be protectionistic of their language. Most Danes speak English well, but I don't know a single Dane who has trouble speaking Danish for that reason.

Update: thanks to Mary for pointing out that the first paragraph had the expression "English-languish"... now that is funny! Especially considering the context.

DreamingWolf exclaimed:
It is funny for me (weeell, not THAT funny) to read these opinions on English as a major language for all of us here on Earth. Though I speak English and I like it, the idea of it becoming the main language for the world sounds great on one side, on the other I think it just contributes to self-importance of Brits and Anglo-Americans (to exclude Spanish, Italian, Chinese, Polish and other American minorities). The fact that English is so widespread is due to the British imperial expansivity and expansionism in the past. They conquered a lot of other countries and cultures. OK. But this doesn't mean those of English origin are super-human, and superior to other nations and cultures...

Eolake said:
You have a good point.
I just think that regardless of the dubious means of how the English-language domination was established, global communication is so important that it supersedes any lingering resentment due to past wrongs. It would be shooting yourself in the foot to refuse this grand a communication opportunity just because you were invaded by the English at some point. Heck, I am Danish, and I don't use a moment's thought on Lord Nelson bombarding Copenhagen some time in the nineteenth century.

It also seems to me that the less reason people have for an inflated ego, the more inflated it is. So no harm can come, at least compared to the benefits.

Update April 10:
Wonko scribes:
One of the reasons for the "success" of English as a de facto international language is because of its origins. English has Scandanavia, Germanic, French and Latin and even Ancient Greek roots, together with a generous sprinkling of terms from other languages - Urdu and Hindi in particular (for example words such as; Pyjamas, Khaki and Shampoo). As a result English has a lot of synonyms - words expressing subtle variations of the same concept - which makes it wonderfully good for describing things. It's also a good technical language for the same reason, hence the take up on the internet/computing circles. Unfortunately this is a double-edged sword and lends towards our problems with spelling. For example think of the words: Slough (a town to the West of London), slow, plough, Brough (another town in Yorkshire), brow, and dough. Some are pronounced the same, some are subtly different, and the spelling doesn't always have a lot to do with it. It's because they're all from different roots.

Learn some 'Old English' from the Anglo-Saxon period of English History, it's not that different from what we speak today. Even more intriguingly if you then go to certain parts of North Holland and Scandanavia you can make yourself understood speaking it. Eddie Izzard did so in his television programme "Mongrel Nation". He asked a farmer if he could see a "brune coo" (brown cow), and the guy understood him. In fact, if you're familiar with the North-East accent in England, at lot of the terms and way people speak are almost pure Norse, even today! Am awee gan ham (I'm away going home, or just: I'm going home).

Post Norman Conquest - the Normans themselves being Scandanavians who settled in France and took on French ways, just look at the ships on the Bayeux Tapistry - a lot of French was introduced into "English". Interestingly, a lot of words to do with violence, war and law came from Norman French.

The key has always been that English constantly changes and adapts, incorporating new words all the time. As a result it has been able to grow and change. Melvyn Bragg's excellent series "The History of English" is a fascinating study of my mother tongue.

I would agree that British schoolchildren (can't speak for USA) would greatly benefit from learning foreign languages, earlier. I learned French at secondary school, and although I studied it for seven years, being honest I was never that good at it. I'm constantly surprised at how well many foreigners speak English, far, far better than I could communicate in their language. It shames me a little, but whenever I travel abroad I do at least try to learn a few key phrases - Please, Thank You, etc. - and I usually find that the person I'm speaking to wants to practice their English with me!

One last point: English is already the standard International language of Radio Communication, and is used by shipping, aircraft and Amateur Radio enthusiasts the World over.

Update April 11:
Wonko expanded:
Thanks TTL for posting that link, it made very interesting reading. Just to pick up on one comment to your list, about the use of "gate" for "street". In Leeds (in South Yorkshire) there are streets called Briggate, Eastgate and Westgate. These are all Norse/Viking in origin. I understand that the word "gata" is used in Norwegian and Icelandic for many streets. Even today Briggate is the road to a bridge that crosses the river. You'll find Norse names throughout North-Eastern and Eastern England, dating back to the period known as 'Danelaw' in the late Saxon period. In this time England was split in two along a line roughly from The Wash to the Severn, with predominently Danes ruling in the North and East, and Saxons in the South and West. Any town names ending in "thorpe" or "by" are Norse in origin.

Interestingly on the subject of seemingly unrelated languages, I have a story involving my Grandfather that you may like. he is now living in a Nursing Home having reached the age of 90. He was taken prisoner by the Japanese at Singapore and survived building the Burma Railroad, being torpedoed in the Sea of Japan and the A-bomb at Hiroshima. He spoke with the other male resident of his home who it turned out used to work for the Foreign Office. Furthermore this man left Singapore on the ship my Grandfather arrived on! This man's background was in studying ancient languages, he spoke and read several easily. One of the carers he'd had over the years was Hungarian and didn't speak much English. He discovered that speaking Ancient Greek to her and she replying in Hungarian allowed them to communicate better than in English! He also claimed to have found some links between Greek and Chinese through earlier Indo-European Languages. It just goes to show that we're all much more closely linked than it would otherwise appear!

In Danish a street is "gade". Due to the peculiar Danish soft D (similar the th in "the"), I never spotted the link the "gate" in English.