Notes on life, art, photography and technology, by a Danish dropout bohemian.
When you drink the water, remember the river.
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Wednesday, March 14, 2007
Beauty is truth is beauty
Nearly twenty years ago I wrote the maxim "Beauty is truth is beauty". I was very proud of it. Then much later I found out that John Keats had said it first: "Beauty is truth, truth beauty — that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."
And the reason it is expressed in a poetic way is that of course on some levels it is not true at all. A person can be beautiful and still be a very false person. But on higher levels I believe it is very true.
You speak of these "higher levels" yet never explain what the hell you are talking about Mr Stobblehouse. Higher levels of what? I mean, come on man, what are you saying? Higher levels. Hmm.
Is truth always beautiful? I think that the subject of it is not necessarily beautiful, that may be why we tell white lies. Does it then mean that the fact that something is truth, that it is itself in the most pure form, make it beautiful?
Not quite sure if I articulated it that clearly and it's sort of giving me a brain cramp... but I couldn't simply accept the statement, it just didn't seem right.
So if something that is beautiful is only beautiful if it's true, because both conditions have to be met ... something must be itself, not hidden, not behind a facade, and once it's recognizable as such, then you can also recognize that it is beautiful?
Argh, my reasoning is going around in circles. It's like I can't quite get where I want to be. And I think reason and not intuition is the right tool for this one...
Don't sweat it Hannah, it isn't worth it. It's mumbo-jumbo jive talk. People like to try and confuse and amuze themselves with such junk. 1. Not all beauty is truth. 2. Truth isn't always beautiful. 3. Falsehoods can be both beautiful and ugly. So can truth. 4. Simple, even for all to grasp.
Beauty is a value assigned by the observer. Is something beautiful? Ask ten people. There's bound to be some form of unanimous agreement on most things. I doubt there are many who would deny that a young girl is beautiful, and there are very few who would consider the sight of flowers to be unpleasant. Yet, this is still a value judgment they have made themselves, and while there might be a common agreement concerning things common to each of our experiences, this by no means makes it an objective standard.
I find truth more beautiful than any falsehood. If it is painful, it only hurts for a time. When it's over I'm grateful to have seen it, I'm stronger for it, and I'm able to press on with fewer difficulties. And I know when the truth is hard to swallow, it is only because of my resistance to it, not because accepting it is inherently painful.
Keep in mind, i don't think Eolake's talking about beauty in the sense of aesthetically pleasing surface appearance. True beauty goes far beneath the surface. It is a state of being, it is the condition of one's heart. Even the devil can appear as an angel, but that doesn't change what lies within. The beauty we're referring to here has no hidden layer of deceit, it has no need to convince the world it is anything other than what it is. It is exposed to all eyes and stirs within us a deep reverence and love for it and for our fellow human beings.
My Blog: http://philosophysword.blogspot.com/
My MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/lucidtwilight1406
That truth is beauty and beauty truth is a universal saying. It can be discussed intellectually, but in deeper regions is just whispered in the heart and known perfectly. Eolake nor Keats originated this truth, it has been around eternally waiting for those with ears to hear.
It's too far away from the plane that I'm functioning on at the moment to be hardly at all understandable for me. It just seems too far out, like it's searching.
Hey, don't sweat it too much. Most good ideas are bound to have been thought of before 2005. It's very hard to be 100% original these days. Being interesting is already a nice feat. :-)
Eolake said... Where a "heart" is not just a fist-sized lump of meat, for instance.
It's not. It is hollow, with a juicy core of fresh blood on the left, and a bitter one on the right. A very gastronomic contrast, according to a connoissor. (Namely, my rodentivorous cat.) He also loves rats' tails, but I'm digressing.
Hannah, I believe a truly beautiful woman needs no make-up, and a woman who doesn't need make-up is truly beautiful. Unlike many over-painted celebrities, for example. Does that relieve your vertigo? :-) Is the face of a woman a high enough level? I believe so.
Peaceful Blade said... "Even the devil can appear as an angel"
By only APPEARING so, he's not truthful, and therefore only deceivingly beautiful to the mistaken. Hence the classic interrogation: "How could I ever have once found you beautiful?"
I recall that, in college, I garnered much consternation from my entire class by insisting that an artist always seeks to create beauty. At first they just thought I meant the soft-focus pastel colored beauty of the French Impressionists.
Of course, I was never so naive. So when I suggested that George Grosz's grotesque line-drawings of Weimar whores fit the bill of beauty as well, they took me more seriously, and upgraded me from dilettante to lunatic, safely ensconcing my iconoclastic ideas in the asylum of "just doesn't get it" tom-foolery.
Soon thereafter they came around. I am proud to have helped them on their way. :)
Ah, I think you may have explained why people get upset or puzzled when I say just that. It never occurred to me that they confused Beautiful and Pretty.
Even the devil can appear as an angel, but that doesn't change what lies within.
Hey Blade, that's the only statement you ever made that I agree with and you actually used less than a million words of entangled gibberish. lol. ah, congratulations, you're moving forward.
final identity, I very much enjoyed that little paragraph of yours, thanks for that.
I found the writings of Henry Miller very beautiful (he saw beauty in the midst of the most seedy circumstance) and he wrote with such clarity and with such little puffery. "Tropic of Cancer" was a masterpiece in my mind, and it was banned in the U.S. for years because of its seedy content.
He wrote about his early years as a writer living in the streets of Paris with no money and no fear.
it was banned in the U.S. for years because of its seedy content.
most of the copies i know about have been burned because of it's filth. nowhere in our town can you find a copy, it remains banned. even inquiring about the book will have you under investigation.
Final Identity said... "they took me more seriously, and upgraded me from dilettante to lunatic, safely ensconcing my iconoclastic ideas in the asylum of "just doesn't get it" tom-foolery. Soon thereafter they came around."
So, you're saying I'm not the only one whose dementia is contagious? Gee, thank you, that brought me great comfort! ;o)
Blue Balls, I know the Devil looks good. After all, he wears Prada. Darling, that's so classy!
Anonymous, I'd be very interested to live in a place such as your town. Um... come to think of it, I do. It's called Beirut. Ask about the wrong reading material, and nobody will dare ask what happened to you! The DaVinci Code has been banned here... after everybody had plenty of time to read it. But alas, I never had an opportunity to see it in all its "blazing glory" autodafé. Burning books is so unlike local culture. Now, the Mongols burning the Baghdad library, THAT's more like the colourful traditional wholesome clean fun you mention. :-) I heard there was a similar show in Berlin too, in the late Thirties?...
Beauty in some ways is the truth. However, I very much disagree with the statement that beauty lies in the eye of beholder. If u analyse that statement clearly, then you would begin to find out that it claims that beauty is not true but just an illusion. It could have been better if the saying would have went as ' Beauty like art, has a vast variety and thus it has to be respected no matter what, however with moderation.'
I am not sure I understand. Do you mean:
ReplyDeletebeauty <=> truth
i.e. that they are synonyms?
Yes.
ReplyDeleteAnd the reason it is expressed in a poetic way is that of course on some levels it is not true at all. A person can be beautiful and still be a very false person. But on higher levels I believe it is very true.
But on higher levels I believe it is very true.
ReplyDeleteYou speak of these "higher levels" yet never explain what the hell you are talking about Mr Stobblehouse. Higher levels of what? I mean, come on man, what are you saying?
Higher levels. Hmm.
Say, over 200 feet. Maybe 250.
ReplyDeleteBut seriously. I mean the levels above crude mechanics and literal understanding. Where a "heart" is not just a fist-sized lump of meat, for instance.
ha ha, I like that eolake.
ReplyDeleteLaurie
Is truth always beautiful? I think that the subject of it is not necessarily beautiful, that may be why we tell white lies. Does it then mean that the fact that something is truth, that it is itself in the most pure form, make it beautiful?
ReplyDeleteNot quite sure if I articulated it that clearly and it's sort of giving me a brain cramp... but I couldn't simply accept the statement, it just didn't seem right.
So if something that is beautiful is only beautiful if it's true, because both conditions have to be met ... something must be itself, not hidden, not behind a facade, and once it's recognizable as such, then you can also recognize that it is beautiful?
Argh, my reasoning is going around in circles. It's like I can't quite get where I want to be. And I think reason and not intuition is the right tool for this one...
Going to have to think about this.
Argh, my reasoning is going around in circles.
ReplyDeleteDon't sweat it Hannah, it isn't worth it. It's mumbo-jumbo jive talk. People like to try and confuse and amuze themselves with such junk.
1. Not all beauty is truth.
2. Truth isn't always beautiful.
3. Falsehoods can be both beautiful and ugly. So can truth.
4. Simple, even for all to grasp.
Beauty is a value assigned by the observer. Is something beautiful? Ask ten people. There's bound to be some form of unanimous agreement on most things. I doubt there are many who would deny that a young girl is beautiful, and there are very few who would consider the sight of flowers to be unpleasant. Yet, this is still a value judgment they have made themselves, and while there might be a common agreement concerning things common to each of our experiences, this by no means makes it an objective standard.
ReplyDeleteI find truth more beautiful than any falsehood. If it is painful, it only hurts for a time. When it's over I'm grateful to have seen it, I'm stronger for it, and I'm able to press on with fewer difficulties. And I know when the truth is hard to swallow, it is only because of my resistance to it, not because accepting it is inherently painful.
Keep in mind, i don't think Eolake's talking about beauty in the sense of aesthetically pleasing surface appearance. True beauty goes far beneath the surface. It is a state of being, it is the condition of one's heart. Even the devil can appear as an angel, but that doesn't change what lies within. The beauty we're referring to here has no hidden layer of deceit, it has no need to convince the world it is anything other than what it is. It is exposed to all eyes and stirs within us a deep reverence and love for it and for our fellow human beings.
My Blog:
http://philosophysword.blogspot.com/
My MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/lucidtwilight1406
That truth is beauty and beauty truth is a universal saying. It can be discussed intellectually, but in deeper regions is just whispered in the heart and known perfectly. Eolake nor Keats originated this truth, it has been around eternally waiting for those with ears to hear.
ReplyDeleteIt's too far away from the plane that I'm functioning on at the moment to be hardly at all understandable for me. It just seems too far out, like it's searching.
ReplyDeleteEolake nor Keats originated this truth.
ReplyDeletebut it's not completely truth. it really isn't a profound statement.
to me, it borders on being absurd.
"I found out that John Keats had said it first"
ReplyDeleteHey, don't sweat it too much. Most good ideas are bound to have been thought of before 2005. It's very hard to be 100% original these days. Being interesting is already a nice feat. :-)
Eolake said...
Where a "heart" is not just a fist-sized lump of meat, for instance.
It's not. It is hollow, with a juicy core of fresh blood on the left, and a bitter one on the right. A very gastronomic contrast, according to a connoissor. (Namely, my rodentivorous cat.)
He also loves rats' tails, but I'm digressing.
Hannah,
I believe a truly beautiful woman needs no make-up, and a woman who doesn't need make-up is truly beautiful. Unlike many over-painted celebrities, for example. Does that relieve your vertigo? :-)
Is the face of a woman a high enough level? I believe so.
Peaceful Blade said...
"Even the devil can appear as an angel"
By only APPEARING so, he's not truthful, and therefore only deceivingly beautiful to the mistaken. Hence the classic interrogation: "How could I ever have once found you beautiful?"
I recall that, in college, I garnered much consternation from my entire class by insisting that an artist always seeks to create beauty. At first they just thought I meant the soft-focus pastel colored beauty of the French Impressionists.
ReplyDeleteOf course, I was never so naive. So when I suggested that George Grosz's grotesque line-drawings of Weimar whores fit the bill of beauty as well, they took me more seriously, and upgraded me from dilettante to lunatic, safely ensconcing my iconoclastic ideas in the asylum of "just doesn't get it" tom-foolery.
Soon thereafter they came around. I am proud to have helped them on their way. :)
Ah, I think you may have explained why people get upset or puzzled when I say just that. It never occurred to me that they confused Beautiful and Pretty.
ReplyDeleteEven the devil can appear as an angel, but that doesn't change what lies within.
ReplyDeleteHey Blade, that's the only statement you ever made that I agree with and you actually used less than a million words of entangled gibberish. lol. ah, congratulations, you're moving forward.
final identity, I very much enjoyed that little paragraph of yours, thanks for that.
ReplyDeleteI found the writings of Henry Miller very beautiful (he saw beauty in the midst of the most seedy circumstance) and he wrote with such clarity and with such little puffery. "Tropic of Cancer" was a masterpiece in my mind, and it was banned in the U.S. for years because of its seedy content.
He wrote about his early years as a writer living in the streets of Paris with no money and no fear.
it was banned in the U.S. for years because of its seedy content.
ReplyDeletemost of the copies i know about have been burned because of it's filth. nowhere in our town can you find a copy, it remains banned.
even inquiring about the book will have you under investigation.
By only APPEARING so, he's not truthful, and therefore only deceivingly beautiful to the mistaken.
ReplyDeleteHey Raskell,
He still remains beautiful even in his fallen form. Nowhere in scripture (KJV) does it say that Lucifer AKA Satan ever lost his beauty.
Anonymous, wow, I didn't know that. What town is that, Shreveport? That's amazing . . . .
ReplyDeleteFinal Identity said...
ReplyDelete"they took me more seriously, and upgraded me from dilettante to lunatic, safely ensconcing my iconoclastic ideas in the asylum of "just doesn't get it" tom-foolery. Soon thereafter they came around."
So, you're saying I'm not the only one whose dementia is contagious? Gee, thank you, that brought me great comfort! ;o)
Blue Balls,
I know the Devil looks good. After all, he wears Prada. Darling, that's so classy!
Anonymous,
I'd be very interested to live in a place such as your town.
Um... come to think of it, I do. It's called Beirut. Ask about the wrong reading material, and nobody will dare ask what happened to you!
The DaVinci Code has been banned here... after everybody had plenty of time to read it. But alas, I never had an opportunity to see it in all its "blazing glory" autodafé. Burning books is so unlike local culture. Now, the Mongols burning the Baghdad library, THAT's more like the colourful traditional wholesome clean fun you mention. :-)
I heard there was a similar show in Berlin too, in the late Thirties?...
I never claim anything I can't prove.
ReplyDeleteIf it's on the internet, it must be true! >}:-)
Beauty in some ways is the truth. However, I very much disagree with the statement that beauty lies in the eye of beholder. If u analyse that statement clearly, then you would begin to find out that it claims that beauty is not true but just an illusion. It could have been better if the saying would have went as ' Beauty like art, has a vast variety and thus it has to be respected no matter what, however with moderation.'
ReplyDelete"If u analyse that statement clearly, then you would begin to find out that it claims that beauty is not true but just an illusion."
ReplyDeleteYes, I am beginning to wonder if it is. For sure nobody has been able to quantify it yet.