I get the impression that many (most?) people get upset if their spouse looks at another person of the opposite gender, or if he/she gets hit on by somebody, no matter if there is any reason to believe anything would happen.
Am I missing something, or is this not just insecurity at a level bordering on insanity?
I almost never experienced jealousy in my past long-term relationship. There was no reason to. Once in 17 years I had a "jealousy" dream, but that was it. We had a very sedate relationship.
ReplyDeleteWhen my present relationship first started, my boyfriend was still corresponding with an old girlfriend of his on a weekly basis, long phone calls. I would hear the love in his voice as he spoke to her, and I just walked away. Once I saw a photo of her, she was gorgeous, a marathon runner, a biologist, very beautiful woman, and he praised her strength to the hilt, and told me she was the only woman he had ever considered marrying. He also said for some reason they could never fully commit to each other. I tried to develop a friendship with her via e.mail, to feel more comfortable with his connection to her. She wanted nothing to do with me, and was quite rude to me. The tension grew.
Every Sunday morning she'd call.
I couldn't get out of my mind that she had known my boyfriend intimately. That she was gorgeous and accomplished. Yeah, I was jealous. It was a major turning point in our relationship when I quietly told him, I could not have her in my life, it was too painful, and either she would go or I. Something out of the movies. I had never stood up for myself like that. I had always been too "spiritual" to have jealousy.
Now I feel "jealousy" has it's place, like every other single emotion. Yes, experiencing it is like playing with fire.
It is a very complex emotion. Very painful. I never thought I'd feel it in myself. I know the damage it can cause. But sometimes it, must have its say,
for relationships to deepen.
laurie
p.s. regarding my boyfriend looking at and admiring other women, I encourage it. I like it.
ReplyDeleteReminds me of the "Ross versus Rachel" conundrum. (From TV's "Friends," a sitcom I was never actually very excited about, but there ya go.)
ReplyDeleteSo, the set-up: these two characters have hovered around one another for years, always almost getting together. Then finally they DO, bang! and they're a committed couple. Hoorah, everyone's happy. Then, they break up. Everyone's sad. They agree to see other people. It is a definite, final, mutually respectful break up. Over schmover.
Then, the inciting action: immediately after the break up, the male (Ross) goes out to find solace at a bar with his buddies, and (though he did not plan for this) he ends up in a one-night stand with a female stranger. He has sex with her. Meanwhile, the female (Rachel) goes out to find solace at a different bar with HER buddies, but she does NOT engage in a one-night stand with anyone.
Finally, the conundrum: Rachel later wants to "talk to" Ross but finds out he has "slept around on her." She is appalled. He is unapologetic.
The question: do you agree with Ross or with Rachel? AFTER THE BREAKUP, does Rachel still have the right to make demands on Ross's fidelity to her "at least for a little while" because, otherwise, for him to jump into the sack immediately (as he did) would be "disrespectful of the intimacy they shared"?
Get the problem? They broke up, but Rachel still wants his sexual fidelity. And in our society, believe it or not, at least half the women I've informally surveyed agree with Rachel. This astounds me. I find any human who could possibly demand that a former boyfriend "make amends" even though the relationship is over, to be a SUPREMELY SELF-INVOLVED JEALOUS MORON.
But then, that's just my opinion. Anyone on here want to try to defend Rachel's position against Ross's? :)
The Rachel character was hot and fun, but a controlling bitch. I'm with Ross.
ReplyDelete"regarding my boyfriend looking at and admiring other women, I encourage it. I like it."
ReplyDeleteWell done. See this shows how sane you are.
Goes the other way too, I would never expect a GF of mine to suddenly become blind to hot guys around us.
a break up means broken ties, no more anything including intimacy, shared secrets ect.
ReplyDeletewhether the person is male or female they are free from the committment. it's over, done.
both need to move on. also an important note to remember is that, time and distance does strange things to a once prominent relationship. ( i found this out the hard way.)
the fat lady is exiting the stage as i speak.
You're animals, all of you. It's automatic, instinct. Try reaching for the hamburger on my plate and see what happens.
ReplyDeleteIn 1996, I was in Marseille with my mother. It was raining, we were walking together under a single umbrella, and a friendly homeless guy asked "us lovebirds" if we had a coin to share for buying food. Considering I don't look my age, it was quite amusing for both "lovebirds". The guy got quite enough for lunch that day. :-)
ReplyDeleteIf somebody told me that he finds my girlfriend pretty, I'd thank him and (maybe) remind him that she's already with somebody. If you're insecure about the other one's love, then either you're having some serious couple problems, or you're not as ideal a match as you thought. Jealousy is another primal reflex that was useful when our species was primitive, but today it needs to be under the control of sense in a civilized world.
Alas, until now there are no mandatory "sense classes" in school. Some things you can only learn through life, or if you meet some wise person willing to share... or if you're lucky!
No, Eolake, you're not missing something. You're not the one who's insecure because your personnality is missing something and seeking it in the possession of another.
Sometimes, I think for a second that I am jealous of my brother's family : a loving wife, two adorable children... But it's not really jealousy. Or envy. Because deep down, I realize I don't want that what he has to become mine, I just wish to have something similar. In fact, I don't remember a time where my brother and I got along so well. True jealousy IS the fruit of insecurity. Us, we know there's always enough love for everybody, no matter how much it is shared it keeps increasing.
Jealousy? If (rather WHEN) I meet a mother with a beautiful child, and we share an understanding smile, it means the mother didn't see me as a prospective kidnapper. But naturally, for admiration of beauty to be harmless, a pure attitude is needed, and it seems this is a very rare and little-sought treasure.
In an ideal world...
I can definitely understand Signalroom's experience, because this is way beyond unbased insecurity, it's a clear threat to a relationship. Reminding of what I said about couple problems. If an ex isn't clearly over with, it's a problem, and realizing it is no more dumb insecurity, it's smart caution.
I've felt that kind of jealousy, sort of. But in my case, I had a crush for a girl, and then she told me she already had someone, and that it was serious between them. I won't sweeten the picture, it was hard. But I knew, from her saying "it's serious", that either I stepped back or I would bring unhappiness to a person I only wanted to see happy.
In fact, the "other guy" turned out to be a very fine person, so...
I was jealous, yes. And you're right, it's very painful. I just didn't indulge in stupidity. Out of respect for all three of us.
Why on Earth would I seek comfort in making others as miserable as I am?
[Signalroom's P.S.] : You know, the world may not be so un-ideal after all. Sometimes, Heaven and Hell ARE just a matter of attitude.
(Last night I watched the Alaska Western North Star, with Chris Lambert. At one point, two of the bad guy's henchmen are close to a regrettable gesture, in the middle of a blizzard. And one says to the other : "Well, go ahead, shoot me! At least, in Hell it'll be warm!")
Ross vs Rachel : although I'm genetically inclined to think like a guy, I'll dare say that Rachel is stupid, for one simple reason. They shouldn't have broken up if they felt they still really loved each other! It seems Rachel didn't know what she wanted or how she felt. Fool.
On the other hand, I really don't picture myself, like Ross, having one-night stands. Especially if a break-up is still a raw wound. But dammit, it's not like they simply had a fight! Or decided to "give the two of them some time". They DID break up. When you divorce, you're not married any more.
Anyhow, "Friends" tends to get on my nerves, so I don't watch it. People too dumb to know whether they're in love or not simply don't amuse me.
"at least half the women I've informally surveyed agree with Rachel"
The survey is conclusive : "ex"es are possessive. Ross might very well have been a sadly typical guy, but that was his full right. And I'm sure a break-up can't just come out of the blue : their feelings, and their relationship, had already changed for them to take this decision.
"Anyone on here want to try to defend Rachel's position against Ross's?"
I think I've just un-defended Ross, but with an innocent plea. :-)
"The Rachel character was hot and fun, but a controlling bitch."
Well, that's another way of putting it. And I won't blame you for using crude words on a fictious character.
I feel sorry for Rachel, because in case she's NOT a controlling bitch, then she's "emotionally handicaped". Unable to handle or recognize her true feelings. I still have the scars from someone like her.
"Goes the other way too, I would never expect a GF of mine to suddenly become blind to hot guys around us."
"Honey, what do you prefer? Women who are beautiful, or intelligent?
- Neither, baby. You know you're the only one I love!"
More seriously, admiration and desire are not the same. Not always, because they just don't HAVE to. If my GF found Arnie's muscles impressive and sexy, it would only mean she doesn't take me for a total moron. And if she doesn't dump me on the spot to go stalk Governor Schwarzenegger, then all's fine in the world. (In case she does, however, it would mean I've definitely been dating the wrong girl.)
I'd like very much to hear the opinion of the ladies re: Ross/Rachel. To know whether someone finds me gender-biased.
Let's not forget, to be perfectly honest, that many calamitous "guys" just won't accept that, after a girl dumped them, she no longer is their "property". I've watched Jerry Springer. Both genders are capable of being immature asses. And men tend to stir up more trouble in average, I believe.
"And it is counter-productive. Ancipatory anxiety creates what it is most afraid of."
Mellow guys like you have already let Big Brother win!
CONSTANT VIGILANCE! (Alastor "Mad Eye" Moody, auror, DADA teacher.)
"a break up means broken ties, no more anything including intimacy, shared secrets ect."
Allright, but don't let that mean that the secrets shared cease to be secrets, okay? Otherwise, the eventual patching-up may be seriously compromised... ;o)
"the fat lady is exiting the stage as i speak."
Well, just don't just stant there, you dumb Pavarotti! If you still love her fat butt, run after her NOW!
;o)
"My" girl, "my" man... I don't get those terms.
Then you definitely won't get terms like "my boss", "my jailer" or "my attempted killer". ;-)
"Who wants to own another person?"
Well, seeing love as ownership is the first mistake. And usually the last, because no second one is needed.
"I want somebody who's free"
This is why I'm more of a cat person. Dogs are very nice, but submissive by nature, and that makes me uneasy. I like to deal with equals.
"Hello, this is [insert name], the woman/man to whom I am married." Trips off the tongue doesn't it?
As harmoniously as a warm marshmallow pancake in a DVD drive.
With maple syrup. ;o)
"I have seen perfectly stable, happy relationships destroyed by the (unfounded) suspicions of one party or the other."
Not to mention the sadly true cliché : "If he's going to make my life unbearable by acting like he KNOWS I'm unfaithful, I might as well become so and get some comfort with a nicer person! Since there's no changing some people's attitude anyway."
Otherwise known as the "you do the time, enjoy the crime" paradox, or the "double jeopardy" principle.
Anonymous,
ReplyDelete"GRRRRRRRR!..."
Ruff said!
Lucid,
ReplyDeleteI remember one of the first instances where I learned to control my instincts.
Daddy and Mommy were so happy that I went potty!
;-)
I'm with Ross.
ReplyDeleteLaurie